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July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65401
If the global economy does go for dump There will be fewer opportunities fortrade with outside groups and areas. I am thinking communities will first need to look inward for survival skills and skills needed to sustain the community.
For example what do you do for shoes and boots. does anyone even know how to repair worn out shoe sole?
We all know e need to know how to grow food. Sure but how?
If you can’t find irrigation pipes what else can you substitute?
Worst case scenario beeing all international trade ceases due to lack of credit or ready cash. Then what. We will be reduced to scroungging and cannibalizing existing machinery to improvise something that will work for us.
If the old tractor breaks a part who will know how to make repairs if spare parts are not available.
How do you make a human powered plow if the tractor no longer works because ther is no fueel or it is broken. you ned to plow the field in order to plant a crop for food.July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65402
yep thats why a comunity who are already working toward self sustainability
for whatever reason would fare much better.than a community which relies heavily on imports and cheap energy for trucking.
most likely during energy descent we would all start to scrounge and canibalise
our machinery and infrastructure to make do as things change.In fact i think recycleing will be a growth industry.
I dont think trade will ever completely cease but it will likely become more
sensible lol those strawberries flown in from ecuador may have to stop.
I do agree a community will have to look closer to home to fullfill its needs
most of your examples i would have a solution for but it would be better if
that solution was adopted deliberately and early rather than forced in an emergency as a simple matter of survival.
as an example somebody who was making moccasins or sheepskin boots as part
of a cottage craft industry would likely be the best person to start repairing or making new boots.
or somebody doing pottery as a cottage craft could also likely build pipes for water movement or pots for water storage.
Thats why a community with a lot of small industry is the way to go
and here also is the problem many people myself included have a
fantasy of setting up a little cottage craft business and making enough
money to live on like a candlemaker as an example
candles are important i think everybody should have them but in most cases
the new candlemaker is going to run up against shipping and marketing
costs and competition with large manufacturing and importing companies.
and that candlemaker will be lucky to break even let alone make enough income
to pay his living expenses in a (cant think of the word i want so ill just say modern)way of life.
but what if that candle maker was living off grid almost self sustained
with few other expenses what if his neighbors supported him by purchasiing
and bartering for his candles rather than chinese imports and what if as a
comunity they shared in the expenses and effort of marketing and shipping
so that the candlemaker could bring in some extra cash income?
and the candlemaker would of course be supporting the other small industries in the area.
does anyone else agree this could work??July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65403
The challenge will be sourcing the raw matereials. Brie posted a list of off grid work suggestions.
Every single one depends on communicattions and interstatee traansportion.
How do you knit with wool unless you run a flock of sheep. How do you dye the wool even if you have it. Dyes are not always a local product. How do you make interstate sales if the internet is broken and you can’t advertise.
If people fall off the internet connection you have few options of reaching them.
Free lance writer. Oh Yeah! I have been a professional writer for 30 odd years. Even had my own regular columns or series of articles. Even with a fully functioning internet it’s hard to get noticed these days. I’m not complaining, simply stating a reality fact.
Livestock food sales or eggs etc will only go so far. Yes it helps sustain a local group but its so easy to lose a flock or herd. We came home on day to discover a mink had killed 20% of our chicken flock one morning while we were at farmer’s market. Friends have lost several animals to predation by wild life or ocasionally disease.
FedEx and Parcel post no longer deliver here because its too remote. We have to arrange a drop some 50 miles away at a convenient address. What will happen as fuel cost soar and trucking takes a big hit. A friend who delivers offshore yachts reported the shipping laanes going to Seattle was virtually empty last month when he travelled through there. Maritime traffic news says
Asian originated shipping is already way down compared to last year. Big name shipping companies like Maersk is moth balling many of their older ships.
In order for communities to survive must be self sufficient in food sources and raw material resources. No point in countting on making caandlles if you can’t get candle wax. Beehives will only yield so much wax. The list is endless. Magazines like low tech or No tech carry useful articles but do not rely on digital storage because there may come a time when even a small amount of electtrical power becommes unobtanium. Such communitiies will need hard copy versions of vital data on how it used to be done in a pre-electric world. vital ra material should be collected and sttockpiled now; just in caseJuly 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65404
what you say is true about not needing to rely on interstate transport
but and im only throwing this out there as an example there are many
ways to get your wax for candles bees could provide most if it was
currently worth scraping and rendering etc also animal fats like lard and tallow make excelent beeswax extenders and there is a tree that grows here
called juniper which has berries which are both edible (not the tastiest lol)
but can be boiled to produce a good quality and valuable aromatic wax.
lot of labor involved in the collection but its a possible
the ground here has plenty of clay in it im not up on the different clays
but i know its one of the things that gets mined near here
This seems like it would be good sheep country and there are naturally available dies if need be but dies would be something simple and
inexpensive to ship also.
cochineal im not sure if the bug is here but the opuntia cactus is
and if peru can export it i dont see why it cant be produced here
at least in small quantities
im sure somebody who was into spinning and weaving probably knows many other
natural dies as well.
local markets would be important not just the internet besides im sick of both
paypal and ebay gauging me every time i sell something on ebay.
i didnt mind them making some money for the service they provided but they got greedy.
at the local markets you would end up with out of state traders or people
that had stock from locations other than local even if it was packed in
on donkeys lol supply and demand has worked since history has been recorded
it makes sense that it can keep working.
the trick i think is just to produce something that has value from like you
said mostly local sources to cut down on shipping costs and the middle man as much as possible.the other part of the trick would be simply to not need
a lot from non local sources.July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65405Nick RosenKeymaster
the key to any good marketing of any product is price and use therefore any product must be made cheaply so the question is what local resource do you have in abundance that can be turned into a product of course you can build and bring things in to your location but that incurs cost and raises production overhead so again what is already there. when i think n.e. nevada i think sand,juniper, sagebrush, mesquite and soils [ie clay, rock, salt] than i think of animals scorpions, snakes, small rodents and birds so off the top of my head without seeing locale u could do antivenom collection broom making u had mentioned candles add in soaps, glassmaking and sculpting mineral extracting for dyes and laboratoriesJuly 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65406
well so far i would say resources are. excelent wind and solar power prospects
ive actually got a home brew windmill that can make electricity or drive
mechanical tools directly (have not reset it up yet)
seems like good topsoil. subsoil has a high clay content down about 3 feet
you get into a sand/gravel mix which is working good for concrete after i winnow out some of the clay from it.lots of fossils in the area but you are not permited to make money from finding and selling those.
have not seen any poisonous snakes or scorpions just a couple of non
poisonous ones. lots of little critters though mice,chipmunks i think and rabbits.actually also plenty of large game this area is known for its fine hunting.
flora consists of sagebrush many wild plants and flowers i cant identify
cactus,juniper, looks like a couple of varieties of pine i dont think
there is enough larger trees to warrant a sawmill that exported but i have noticed the local ranchers have been cutting posts to use for there fences.
i dont know what the permits you would need to do that from the BLM land or whether its just from your own property but natural resources say it is possible.
all my small animals seem to be doing well rabbits,bees and chickens
rabbits like eating many of the plants that grow wild like sagebrush
and there are plenty of flowers for the bees.
chickens seem to do well anywhere if you can keep away all the other critters that want to eat them lol.
I think it will come down to what does somebody want to do? there is likely a good local solution a way to cut down or eliminate long distance shipping
for example the sheep and wool idea gives rise to ideas for felt hats or even
traditional yurts i believe rabbit skins were also used in australia to produce felt.and a good wide brimmed felt hat is imensly superior to those straw hats that i just wasted 10 dollars on recently and didnt last me a month.July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65407
Chowan, if it is a home brew wind turbine why not simply build another. BTW mechanical power wind mills tend to have a different blade configuration compared to electtricalpower generation. Just look at the old water pumping windmills for an example. The many bladed wind mills have more torque for mechanical work like driving a well rod but the electrical generator models habe two or three blads for faster rotation needed for electrical generation.
In your situation I would be inclined to have one wind mill for electrical generation used full time and a second windmill for mechanical work such as water pumping or grain milling or sawing or. . . .whatever
Concerning sheep. Now might be a good time to test how sheep fare in your locality. All you need is one male ad one female to test out the viability of raising sheep.July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65409
yes its a trade off between high speed and high torque I already have 1 small electrical turbine working great a little Airx
here is my big one
it was an experiment that i was happy with i am going to add a bit of surface area to the blades to add torque before i reset it up.
the reason i though about a dual setup is that i dont have to watch it to produce electricty so im not to worried if its not terribly efficient on that side but i also dont have a need to use it mechanically all the time
so when i am not using it mechanically i can just tranfer it over to
there is a little link under it showing it grinding grain and i have a better
alternator for it now and i will also want some form of better power transfer
between top and bottom in the vid all i had was a rope but i can either get a belt,a chain or some form of drive shaft.July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65410
oh and the reason its only a 2 blade is its a fixed direction
and it was the easiest to build lol
(that should read im to lazy and impatient to mess with 3 or more blades lol)July 28, 2011 at 12:00 am #65411jeepguy4425Participant
hello chowan and good evening. my fiancee and i are very interested in your place and love your drive and vision. please reply here or via email firstname.lastname@example.orgJuly 28, 2011 at 12:00 am #65412
Chowan Were the U-tube video taken at your Nevada place or some place else? Ilik the clevewy you transfered power. My guess is a shaft would have less power loss that either belt, chain, or rope.
Do you have a stream with flowing water on the property?July 28, 2011 at 12:00 am #65413
no that vid was done at my old place in california i dont know if you looked at the waterwheel on my youtube page as well but that was done in a gully
which only ran with water during heavy rains it had a couple of small ponds
above it to store water and energy also in california.
hi jeep guy are there any questions i can answer for you about this area?July 29, 2011 at 12:00 am #65418JayParticipant
I would love to see a video of your new place if possible ?
JayJuly 29, 2011 at 12:00 am #65419
here is a video of my first trip
in january or feb i think most of it was taken in the
small mountain range i have to cross during the winter.
it took me 3 days to find a passable access to the property
with my 2wd truck during the winter.
this next video is just to give you an idea of the surrounding country
and just how big the area is
im on blm land above my property
when i got the silverstreak out here
and a idea of my progress
i have actually got a lot more done now like finished the roofing
rabbits pens and worm beds. installed a windturbine. ill get a video of that soon.July 29, 2011 at 12:00 am #65420Nick RosenKeymaster
Ya I agree with jeep guy you definitely have alot of drive and your locale meets most of my criteria for building its affordable land with reasonable sustainabilty I am still trying to find work for my wife and I in that area or within 60 minutes I think having you as a neighbor would be very interesting
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