Guys, I need some advice

[GardensWaterwheelsParticipant]

Guys, I need some advice.

I plan to buy land in a group of four or more situated apon a downhill mountain stream of

sufficient flow, reliability of permanence and dammability where I persue to set up a series of

dams that have a two cup tall, river wide gap at the bottom to allow the fish, mussels etc to flow

underneath a mesh protected spout. The spout directs most of the rivers flow into a small channel

coming over onto the top of a waterwheel connected to a permanent magnet alternator which generates

electricity to charge a clump of deep cycle marine batteries for periodic replacement. Further

upstream, large debris could be diverted down a different rout somehow, including any river life?

If done intelligently, carefully choosing the land, one can secure permanent free electricity at a

high rate and a low cost in comparison to solar if one utilises this concept of damming the stream

multiple times, utilising multiple wheels, along its length, with a big narrow at the bottom for

the fish, and a mesh protection for the dams spout leading to a water wheel charging a set of deep

cycle marine batteries! On top of this working permanant establishment of sufficient free electricity, one

as a team persues to establish very carefully and beautifully, a working permaculture food forest!

This food forest is established by the team, has a large diversity of fruit and nut plants along

with herbs, tobacco, tea, various hard wood trees, healing remedy plants, diverse organic foods of

all kinds at a cost of low maintenance once established, plants that need more frequent attention,

are placed closer to the house. Some of this is traded for other things, hopefully being able to

give generously. Permaculture is forest archetecture, food forest gardening. It creates a diverse

forest of food that matures very well over long time. etc etc, do some research if you have never

heard of the term ‘permaculture’! So, what do you guys think? And how likely do you think it is to

find land like this at a size of around two acres? ‘I just know thisl work though! And overcoming

any obsticles to climbing this mountain will be so worth it! No rent, free electricity, a food forest of beauty, a life time of freedom for those after you and those after them! Some advice, any? I have worked out, the rough cost to achieve this is: 40k each, four people putting 40k each in.

[chowanParticipant]

very unlikely im sorry I love your ideas they are very much like my own

but its going to be hard to find that perfect piece with the water resources

you want in such a small size  the other thing is permits and such for damming

up a small stream i think that would be the hardest thing unless you intend to

do this without permits it could be if you keep it unobtrusive.

so here would be my suggestion look at washington state lots of rainfall

and hence plenty of small streams to play with and lots of trees to build with

and to cover up and keep private your water wheels. you will probably need to look at larger lots than 2 acres but thats ok the extra land you dont use

will be a fuel and building material forests as per permaculture with

hunting and wild gathering also possible.

[GardensWaterwheelsParticipant]

Yes, if you ask me, this kind of thing can only really be accomplished by a fairly big group of people with a small ammount of money, or a small group of people with a large ammount of money, as the land needs to contain within it this permanent mountain stream. Although it is possible to aquire the same conditions at two acres, which would allow a small ammount of people with a small ammount of money (40k each) to accomplish this task, but this would be a very difficult task! One is better off to blow the government alltogether and just set up somewhere. Without any kind of intervention, apon a free earth, one could simply find this location and set up thusly. Ofcourse we cannot do that unless our team was a large portion of the earths population or something >.<. This land will need to be of perfect conditions. Aquiring permits and correctly utilising run of the river hydroelectricity apon a permanent mountain stream would deem my idea absolutely possible!

[GardensWaterwheelsParticipant]

I hear alot of people use hydroelectricity to create their own electricity in india and many other contries similar, and they get away with it. One article was saying how there are so many people seising these resources apon their land in those areas and making dams without a hole in the bottom for freshwater mussels and other sea life to keep flowing to new areas. And because of incorrect set up they created problems that were entirely preventable. Most likely the officials in US are very weary about people making damms in the wrong places, and correctly, so they ask you for a permit, if you cant obtain a permit even with a safe set up, then it is most likely they simply are preventing you from going off grid without having to buy solar. But atleast the good news in what I am saying is that there are still places where one can achieve the kind of lifestyle I am portraying, the best of which being to create a ‘green’ dam (one with a hole at the bottom and a mesh protecting the spout) apon a perfectly permanent (perrennial) mountain stream. With this method, the price to go off grid without being at all primitive is dramatically reduced. Right down to the price of 40k each between four people at two acres, or less if you have more flow than your lands worth, for example, you buy a property of three acres, but the land is niagra falls, and somehow the fact that niagra falls is on your property did not increase its value in proportion to the ammount of electricity you can create. One would be able to supply enough electricity to 600 people who can all pitch in on the cost of land. So with this example, the ”put in” of price each person has to pay decreases depending on two factors: How much people can fit on the land, and how many people can live comfortably under the roof of the ammount of electricity you can generate from a site.

[chowanParticipant]

you know if all you want is electricity from water a turbine arangement is very doable certainly within the budget of 1 person and its generally easier to hide.

there was also another i saw which fitted directly into a fairly swift moving stream and did not require any dam

not as romantic and as water wheels though

[GardensWaterwheelsParticipant]

^^ yes I will look into that. Cheers

[DustofferParticipant]

Real Goods has various size micro-hydro generators, or you could just Google .  No dams, and if it is your side of the stream, and flowing fast enough in all seasons, free electricity with less hassle.  Hard to find land like that.

[SamParticipant]

There are other ways to use water without making a dam. Search how a grist mill used a “floom”, this would eliminate several of the problems you listed. Also concider other electric options besides water wheel, solar or wind. You’d be surprised what you find when you do a little more research.

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