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yep thats why a comunity who are already working toward self sustainability
for whatever reason would fare much better.than a community which relies heavily on imports and cheap energy for trucking.
most likely during energy descent we would all start to scrounge and canibalise
our machinery and infrastructure to make do as things change.In fact i think recycleing will be a growth industry.
I dont think trade will ever completely cease but it will likely become more
sensible lol those strawberries flown in from ecuador may have to stop.
I do agree a community will have to look closer to home to fullfill its needs
most of your examples i would have a solution for but it would be better if
that solution was adopted deliberately and early rather than forced in an emergency as a simple matter of survival.
as an example somebody who was making moccasins or sheepskin boots as part
of a cottage craft industry would likely be the best person to start repairing or making new boots.
or somebody doing pottery as a cottage craft could also likely build pipes for water movement or pots for water storage.
Thats why a community with a lot of small industry is the way to go
and here also is the problem many people myself included have a
fantasy of setting up a little cottage craft business and making enough
money to live on like a candlemaker as an example
candles are important i think everybody should have them but in most cases
the new candlemaker is going to run up against shipping and marketing
costs and competition with large manufacturing and importing companies.
and that candlemaker will be lucky to break even let alone make enough income
to pay his living expenses in a (cant think of the word i want so ill just say modern)way of life.
but what if that candle maker was living off grid almost self sustained
with few other expenses what if his neighbors supported him by purchasiing
and bartering for his candles rather than chinese imports and what if as a
comunity they shared in the expenses and effort of marketing and shipping
so that the candlemaker could bring in some extra cash income?
and the candlemaker would of course be supporting the other small industries in the area.
does anyone else agree this could work??
what you say is true about not needing to rely on interstate transport
but and im only throwing this out there as an example there are many
ways to get your wax for candles bees could provide most if it was
currently worth scraping and rendering etc also animal fats like lard and tallow make excelent beeswax extenders and there is a tree that grows here
called juniper which has berries which are both edible (not the tastiest lol)
but can be boiled to produce a good quality and valuable aromatic wax.
lot of labor involved in the collection but its a possible
the ground here has plenty of clay in it im not up on the different clays
but i know its one of the things that gets mined near here
This seems like it would be good sheep country and there are naturally available dies if need be but dies would be something simple and
inexpensive to ship also.
cochineal im not sure if the bug is here but the opuntia cactus is
and if peru can export it i dont see why it cant be produced here
at least in small quantities
im sure somebody who was into spinning and weaving probably knows many other
natural dies as well.
local markets would be important not just the internet besides im sick of both
paypal and ebay gauging me every time i sell something on ebay.
i didnt mind them making some money for the service they provided but they got greedy.
at the local markets you would end up with out of state traders or people
that had stock from locations other than local even if it was packed in
on donkeys lol supply and demand has worked since history has been recorded
it makes sense that it can keep working.
the trick i think is just to produce something that has value from like you
said mostly local sources to cut down on shipping costs and the middle man as much as possible.the other part of the trick would be simply to not need
a lot from non local sources.
well so far i would say resources are. excelent wind and solar power prospects
ive actually got a home brew windmill that can make electricity or drive
mechanical tools directly (have not reset it up yet)
seems like good topsoil. subsoil has a high clay content down about 3 feet
you get into a sand/gravel mix which is working good for concrete after i winnow out some of the clay from it.lots of fossils in the area but you are not permited to make money from finding and selling those.
have not seen any poisonous snakes or scorpions just a couple of non
poisonous ones. lots of little critters though mice,chipmunks i think and rabbits.actually also plenty of large game this area is known for its fine hunting.
flora consists of sagebrush many wild plants and flowers i cant identify
cactus,juniper, looks like a couple of varieties of pine i dont think
there is enough larger trees to warrant a sawmill that exported but i have noticed the local ranchers have been cutting posts to use for there fences.
i dont know what the permits you would need to do that from the BLM land or whether its just from your own property but natural resources say it is possible.
all my small animals seem to be doing well rabbits,bees and chickens
rabbits like eating many of the plants that grow wild like sagebrush
and there are plenty of flowers for the bees.
chickens seem to do well anywhere if you can keep away all the other critters that want to eat them lol.
I think it will come down to what does somebody want to do? there is likely a good local solution a way to cut down or eliminate long distance shipping
for example the sheep and wool idea gives rise to ideas for felt hats or even
traditional yurts i believe rabbit skins were also used in australia to produce felt.and a good wide brimmed felt hat is imensly superior to those straw hats that i just wasted 10 dollars on recently and didnt last me a month.
yes its a trade off between high speed and high torque I already have 1 small electrical turbine working great a little Airx
here is my big one
it was an experiment that i was happy with i am going to add a bit of surface area to the blades to add torque before i reset it up.
the reason i though about a dual setup is that i dont have to watch it to produce electricty so im not to worried if its not terribly efficient on that side but i also dont have a need to use it mechanically all the time
so when i am not using it mechanically i can just tranfer it over to
there is a little link under it showing it grinding grain and i have a better
alternator for it now and i will also want some form of better power transfer
between top and bottom in the vid all i had was a rope but i can either get a belt,a chain or some form of drive shaft.
oh and the reason its only a 2 blade is its a fixed direction
and it was the easiest to build lol
(that should read im to lazy and impatient to mess with 3 or more blades lol)
The other thing i think we would need is industry every succesfull
pioneer comunity was founded on some form of industry ie cattle ranching,
gold mining,sawmilling,transport or a combination of many things.
the successfull village that i said i loved living in had a pottery that attracted tourists before it was a pottery it was a pub and before that a whorehouse i am told it adapted to the changing times.it also has a general store and postoffice which was the railway siding before. it has a vw repair
shop several ranchers and smallcropers also bannana plantations and a beekeeper
and it used to have a electronics repair guy, a ham radio guy who was also a chiropractor, a acupunturist and a stationary printer also used to have some sawmilling.
at one time i was the electronics repair guy but before me there was another old guy who i purchased my first oscillascope from (still ran on valves lol)
and after me there was another guy who started doing the electronic repair
who i started to teach before i left but i dont think he listened very well lol
lol The point to all this reminising is that there has to be something
to bring IN the outside wealth because sure as anything there is going to
be wealth leaving the village I like my coffee and I know it will not grow in NE Nevada so its something that will have to be purchased (wealth leaving the village)
the trick is to have the wealth entering the village be more than whats leaving it this is where being mostly self sufficient will help.
there are many cottage crafts that would be suitable to bring in wealth
even in todays age of competing with China but it would
need both a Trader as i previously described and it would need self sufficiency
in most other aspects of our life.
right now oil and energy is still very cheap that is why we can afford to
ship raw materials to China and have them manufacture finished goods and
ship them back for less than we can make them here.
Its hard to compete with cheap energy whch allows the movement over such large
distances often i hear it blamed on cheap chinese labor but its not just that
in this day of robots and production lines. Personally i dont blame the chinese for selling us poorly produced crap its our fault for buying it and buying it and buying it again lol.
but ultimately cheap energy is what shut down the local general store or
gas station because its now cheaper to drive 20 or 50 miles to a wallmart or 76 gas station than buy locally.
This would have to change not just by wishfull thinking or good vibes it would take industrious people who just like what they do and feel a sense of community spirit and acomplishment when there products/wares are purchased and appreciated.
I believe in permaculture concepts of energy descent the communities
that start or adapt to energy descent will thrive others will continue
Elnav in a previous post you described your town as shutting down because the sawmill closed this is not uncommon sawmill,mining,agriculture,fishing,
etc etc it all changes and our comunities must adapt. On the upswing small industries shut down because they could not compete with the big guys and now the big guys are beginning to shut down or consolidate and soon it will be the little guy leading the way again if the little guy could be encouraged and supported
encouraged by purchasing his product and supported by say the trader selling his wares then the village/town with some good little guys would thrive.
got to log off but before i do it was cheap energy/shipping that shut down the little guys in favor of things like modern day wallmart if the cost of energy
was to increase or if through largely local trade we could negate the cost of shipping then the little guy,cottage craft and small communities would again
begin to thrive
I would love to show them how its done lol
you are spoton Elnav that is possibly why your community is not
adapting well to the changes that has befell it even though it has
a lot of good things already going for it.
and that could be a good reason to form a new community of people who are already dedicated to a new type of lifestyle.
I think most people who visit this site share many common beliefs
even if they are based on enviromental or political or financial or spiritual
reasons I think it is fair to say most people here believe its a good idea
to NOT depend on other people or governments for their energy,water,food and shelter.and many here just feel a sense of acomplishment providing for
their own needs kind of like the stone age hunter returning with meat for the
tribe. not to mention the lack of stress not having to worry about affording
paying the electric bill this month lol.
so i think its reasonable if villagers lol could be found through this site
we would all share a common goal even if we are totally different peoples
wow a political barrier? how do you even know my political beliefs?
i generally keep them to myself unless asked I know I am not the best
person for expressing things in writing and often this leads to
misconceptions about me.
but just so everyone knows im a libertarian, a constitutanalist GO RonPaul 2012 lol
would you not like to have me in your community simply because of a political belief? Im smart, hardworking, honest and a share your interest in living off grid would that not make me a good member of your comunity even if your a democrat and i think Al Gore is a crook and Nancy Pelosi makes my ears ring in pain whenever she speaks.
i dont think different politics,religon etc rules out a person as a valuable
member of a community (It takes all sorts)thats another saying i like.
finances are another matter of course ive spent all i could afford getting
gear here and getting set up I could not pull up stakes and move across the country again and im sure others have the same consideration.
this is a very inexpensive area to buy and own no doubt but it has limited
employment oportunites and that is going to be hard for many people
unless we make our own employment.
your observation about people initially interested in off grid
dont always have the technical skills to get them started and
set up is true and that is why a community is a good way to start
water is the key to this area from what i know aquifer water level is 200 to 300 feet which is totally doable there are a couple of wells in the area used by the ranchers.personally i am going catchment and storage rather than well.
rainfall in the area this year at least seemed plenty for all my needs and a small garden area I just wish i had my gutters and tank finished in time to catch this years precipitation.Also there is one small natural spring at about 10 miles on the way to town and i am pretty sure another at about 7 miles but i have not checked that one out yet.
If i can help it i dont want to have to go well because at 200 to 300 feet it puts a major burden on alternate energy sources for pumping it can sure be done
but if precipitation is enough id rather be using rainwater anyway.
Alright I admit it I would love to live in a village with a tavern,old english pub/inn or mead hall as the community center.you know the sort A fat jolly barkeep, cobb walls, candle or lamp light, fire in the corner,microbrew on site,thick wooden furniture,simple accomadations upstairs,cute barmaid,
good solid food even if it lacks variety.I knew of a place like that once
out in the middle of nowhere and very popular with the locals and tourists
but eventually the law of the land shut them down due to many different rules and regulations.It used to be that places like that were where we went to
network instead of on the computer pick up some work, sell something, meet friends, get a cheap but good meal,rent a simple bed if we were passing through.
last time i went out to a pub all i had was extreme amounts of noise to the point where i could not even think let alone talk,crappy food (pretzles and potato chips)and crappy beer brewed by some huge brewing company that wants
me to think because they have cute babes and fast nascars in their advertising
that their beer somehow tasts acceptable.
end of rant lol
the sticky part of a tavern would not just be the brewing license
it would be everything if it was opened and marketed to the public.
as soon as you wanted to make it public everything would have to comply to some code electrical,plumbing,construction even though where i am is very remote and the local building inspector seemed very easy to get along with.
as soon as you started talking about a public tavern it would get a lot
of unwanted attention i think. I thought it would be better to skirt
that trouble by keeping it a semi private venue.I can do a lot of things
cob construction,concrete,woodworking i can even forge some fancy iron hinges
or cast brass candle holders but i cant handle paperwork and beuracracy.
I thought the tavern etc would be the abode or under the direction of the
type of person/s i described as the socialite i guess i have in the back of my mind possibly the husband and wife grandpa and grandmotherly type.
semiretired, old but hale,lots of stories even if you cant believe most of them,good cooks,maybee grandpa is a brewer or grandma is a herblady.
of course anybody could fill the role of socialite if they are friendly
and good with people that is just my idea and rarely do my ideas come out exactly as i thought lol
As far as what i can provide ill be running bees,rabbits,worms,chickens,fish and maybee some goats when i can get some decent fences built.im still young
enough to help out with straight physical work and have a good amount of building expierience I can also set up of grid power systems solar,wind,methane etc and i will be getting my forge running again
and hope to pick up some forge piece work or perhaps do a kind
of traveling tinker thing to earn some cash income.
I also have a small tractor and some other light farm equipment
which would come in handy im sure.
I also do a lot of traveling with work now and have trailers where i can pick
up and transport a lot of things if needed
My idea for the other person i thought of as key to a succesfull village
community would be the trader somebody who is a good networker good at finding
things maybee likes doing the craigslist thing or doing the farmers market/flea market on the weekends.
yep i have been trying to reply all day im sorry for your stroke and that you
had nobody who would help.I believe in helping my neighbor if able i cant help thinking you may be in a bad location.
Ill reply more tomorrow bedtime here
Now the post in question is back in landbuddy but missing the first sentence or 2 also lots of trouble yesterday logging in and staying logged in.
Elnav i think we are similar in that i have also concentrated on the technical aspects of off grid living and i feel like that is my weak point.there is something that I am missing and I can not realy even explain what it is
except to say the social life of community.
i lived in a small village of about 300 people once a mix of what i affectionately call rednecks and hippies and while its true there
was often disagreements that little village had a great atmosphere.
many little businesses and fun people i loved living there.
thats why i think many different types of people are needed to truly make
a community but with a simple ideal to bond them together and with the
right people glue.
Im thinking back now to that little village and there was one or 2 people
who were the people glue. a hippy lady who I always thought of as the queen of the hippies lol she got on well with everyone and was often having parties and
plays for the community.and a big redneck guy who did not always get on with everyone but he was an amazing human networker if you wanted something done
wanted to find something or someone get rid of something he was the guy to
there was I guess other people who cemented the community together as well
but those are the 2 that come to my mind the socialite and the human craigslist
I dunno what happened my landbuddy post ended up in events?