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Home Forums General Discussion is capitalism the problem ?

This topic contains 7 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  blueskymine 8 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #36430

    jetsetjason
    Participant

    We don’t really live in a capitalist country; that’s just a lie they’ve been telling us since the New Deal. We live in a socialist country that leans towards capitalism. The New Deal took the fangs out of the capitalist monster that was destroying the country. There was a covenant between the corporations and the workers; overseen by the government.

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    Aditi

    http://www.goinggreenbuzz.com

    #40261

    Yes, I totally agree. We do not have a free market economy. Interestingly, the idea that the business cycle is inherent in industrial capitalism is an idea of mainstream Keynesian economic thought; It is also an idea originally propounded by Marx. It should not be any surprise then that solutions for ‘fixing’ the ‘economy’ are socialist in nature, which only serve to further pervert the market place. Remember that all the market is is consenting adults engaging in voluntary mutual exchange. (I know that was redundant but I wanted to include all those connotations). Beware those who call for the restriction of the free market, they are typically looking to restrict the little guy.

    There is another theory as to the origins of the business cycle and the turmoil and poverty it creates, and that is: at the same time as the industrial revolution came the ‘innovation’ of fractional reserve banking, and the inflationary monetary financial institutions which it allows. This insight is from the Austrian school of economic thought.

    Inflation grants purchasing power to those who get fresh money and credit first: Wall St, international banking and corporate interests, while decreasing the purchasing power of those who get to use the money last, the poor, the middle class, the small businessman.

    It is interesting that the New Deal was mentioned in the previous post. During that era, in an effort to recover from the Depression, the Roosevelt administration was putting together the National Industrial Recovery Act, which sought to cartelize all industry sectors, using the Federal Reserve System as a model. This move to cartelize was lauded by big business who were of the mentality that their ‘profits were unprotected’. duh….the free market empowers the consumer to choose, there is no, and should not be any, ‘guarantee of profits’. The idea sought to have self-governance in industry, but lead to government enforcement of cartel rules as there was no policing mechanism available privately that could overcome the free market mechanisms (me and you).

    Capitalism is not the problem. It is inflationary monetary policy, government enforced oligopolies, selective subsidies and punitive taxes.

    #40266

    howie
    Participant

    Sorry. I’m confused. Which country do you guys live in? I keep getting mixed-up with https://www.off-grid.net because there is no obvious way of distinguishing which parts of the site (or indeed which forum discussions) come from which side of the pond.

    #40311

    blueskymine
    Participant

    hello, I think it seems the u.s. is mostly being referred to, but all in all the solutions are the same… anything and everything that will bring more independence and strength into the hands of (decent) individuals the better. Most people within their hearts and souls are yearning for the same things but the societal “structures”{for lack of a better word(l)d] is not there to help those who do not think for themselves as much or rely on other types of social and cultural institutions and things… again I am sure most people on earth are yearning for the same things… and if we are to have representatives and leaders of the sort, then let it be those like PETER GARRETT and BARAK OBAMA, what an inspiration, HOW GREAT AND WONDERFUL THAT IS FOR THIS EARTH to finally have some people like that in power, at least on the policy side, etc.. I bet many people fantasize about some great leaders taking control and TURNING EVERYTHING AROUND (peacefully) AND DOING THINGS RIGHT. Instead of everything revolving so much around the wants and needs of the wicked and the witless.

    The ultimate core of turning it all around is when people step outside and just look at eachother and find new ways (and old ways) to function and survive which are more beneficial to themselves, and others and likewise not being harmful to themselves or others. Part of this, economically involves a market but one in which is more like the old time market place. Also more worker owned cooperatives, more options with what you do and who you work with and/or for (usually ideally yourself and family:), everything benefitting the earth and society not harming and inhibiting it. More smaller specialized groups and associtations instead of the big schmolopies:) And everything has to be looked at and reexamined all over again, …. EVERYTHING… especially in a more historic view…… how many people do you meet walking down the street that are thinking to themselves how this all came to be and how it all relates to your own life and everything we see going on around us… maybe more than I’m guessing, but usually it seems otherwise… or maybe people ask the questions, but often stop there.. and go on the same in all this, well its so wonderful when some are brave and take a step sideways, and look at eachother and say hey maybe we could even work together somehow in this..in one or more areas, large or small…. changing economic and educational structures, mentalities, political systems and policies, cultures, technologies, and so much more….

    sorry for the ranting…. and thank you for the thought provoking postings, all in all i agree with most of the posters and do not feel capital-ism in general is the (main) problem but much much more that often utilizes capital-ism for its own gain in harmful ways.

    Have a nice day

    #40313

    jetsetjason
    Participant

    Although i do not agree with all the points in ‘how to be free’ by tom hodgkinson he says that before capitalism life was better, mainly because the church saw profit as bad, i actually think it was due to high wages in the form of free / cheap land due to labour demand outstripping labour supply.

    #40315

    blueskymine
    Participant

    yes, that could be too.. sometimes I think it all depends on how people look at the “quality of life.” I took a class about technology and society last year, it was truly fascinating and it talked about how it is often the case that “low-tech” societies often have a far higher quality of life than those living the more “modern” “high-tech” industrialized lives, etc..

    However, regardless of everything I think rotten people are the problem plain and simple… If I owned some sort of utility company I simply would not rob people blind just because I could, in fact I would do the absolute opposite, but maybe that is what is in the heart of the old capitalist? ? but the article on the front page of this website today is kind of hopeful in that many of those who can afford large quantities of land are trying to do decent and responsible things… but it still is not right that money creates the ability to decide a major part of the fate for an entire country in a multitide of ways… but then is that necessarily the fault of capitalism or a combination of many other things?

    #40331

    Anonymous

    Wow! I really appreciate what this last post says . . . asking who or what is REALLY to blame for our problems. The point is raised and lies at the heart of the issue . . . “The heart of man is deceitfully wicked”. It is not fair to blame the FORM of government when it always boils down to the PEOPLE who implement. Nearly any form of government woudl be wonderfully successful if it were administrated by and lived under by people of integrity and genuine concern for others. All major forms of gov. have positive aspects that are vulnerable to corruption. The conclusion therefore is that 1. it is futile to seek to find or create a perfect gov. or society; and 2. the best second choice is to find the system that is least vulnerable to the harsh realities of selfishness and greed. This clearly demonstrates why the US has had such tremendous success, although no where near perfect, there are checks and balances and representation that at least helps go a long way in controlling and curtailing the destructive nature of mankind.

    Sure there are many decent people who, like you yourself said, would not live to cheat and take advantage of others. The problem is that those who are selfish and greedy tend to be the most strongly motivated and therefore tend to excercise a disproportionate amount of control over others.

    Are the troubles of the US centered around the fact that Exon makes billions in profits . . . or on the general population that insists on driving to places they could walk to, and spending (money and energy) with little thought or concern. We have all grown lazy and spoiled (I include you and me to an extent) and expect much more in life than our ancestors would have ever dreamed of.

    Life will go on . . . dominated by laziness, selfishness and greed . . . intermingled with compassion, care, and concern (consider how much our country gives as a nation . . . and as a collection of individual citizens)and it is up to each of us to do all we can to do all we can.

    #40332

    blueskymine
    Participant

    hello again, sometimes it all seems a big challenge, but if the president had a good plan… and the interesting thing is that those who do not like capitalism often run to another ideology and say it has to be this way or that entirely, such as socialist or whatever… but why can’t it be either or, neither nor, or both)(and almost everything inbetween)? depending on… why don’t the people who want to get together and live a socialist life get together then and get on living it…. and the same for other ideologies. Or actually I think there will be all sorts of various hybrid ideologies across the world in the future as a natural adaptation.(in reality though, serious questions would have to be answered in regards to how these different types of social organizations could get along without intruding or invading upon one another).. How many eons do republicans and democrats have to fight back and forth before they realize that they have finally become obsolete because of the rising power of the bright, intelligent and well reasoned Centrist Majority that changed everything over by way of its own independent non-governmental actions…. and then the rest will follow probably not even knowing they are. thx for the posting, have a great day (vinceremo!'”We Shall Win!”:)

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