Alrod53 |
Green power in Red Oak

OK folks, Ithought it was relevant as to my reasons for going off the grid…. and something to consider when looking for land to survive on in case of national emergency.

Away from the shadow of a major city is the top priority.

Here is the list in reverse order – Number one at the end.

10. Pikeville, Tennessee.  A small town of about 2000 people with moderate land prices with great natural resources for living off the grid with an added bonus of being in the picturesque Sequatchie Valley.

9. Cedar City, Utah. With a population of 25 to 30.000 people and one of the largest cities to make this list. Utah has an independent attitude as far as other states go. Cedar City has some reasonable priced land with some having beautiful mountain views wich also helped it make the list.

8. Thayer or Alton, Missouri, Located in the South central part of MO, and population of about 2,000. Good hunting and fishing areas and reasonably priced land.

7. Sierra Blanca, Texas

6. Hettinger, North Dakota,  Population of about 1000. In the Southwestern part of the state with reasonable priced land.

5. Carlin, Nevada,  Population of about 2000. Hot high desert area with cheap land.

4. Pennsboro, West Virginia, A cozy little town of about 1200, with a lot of Railroad history — beautiful 100- year-old tunnels and countryside and friendly townspeople. Great place if you’re into hunting and trapping. With land prices starting at $1,000 per acre. This is where I picked to live. And we love it here.

3. West Liberty, Kentucky, A small town in the mountains with a population of about 3000 in the eastern part of the state. Also with reasonable land prices with some as low as 500 per acre in large tracts

2. Mountain Home, Arkansas  Population of about 13000 in the Ozark Mountains

And the number one place to go off the grid — Red Oak, Oklahoma Another small town of only about 500 in Southeastern  OK.  Very reasonable land prices, some for less than 1000 per acre.

Something else to think  about when looking for, or buying rural properties is that people from the illegal drug industry also look for rural places like this to set up shop. So be safe when looking for your off the grid oasis.

Buy our book - OFF THE GRID - a tour of American off-grid places and people written by Nick Rosen, editor of the web site

426 Responses to “Ten Best places to Survive in America”

  1. Fleur McNutt

    My husband wants me out of the house because we “2 wks” is not enough need space, I have less than 1 grand in my name, I am basically homeless. Looking to start new.

  2. michael hawkins

    looking for 2 acers of land.

  3. Justin

    It’s honestly pretty enlightening seeing how many people are interested in living this lifestyle. I think its a clear indicator of the failed society we live in and the failed structures we’re all obligated in. Much hope for all those souls searching. I’m only 19 and my journey is just beginning I can only hope to stay on the right path.

  4. WannaBeGone

    66 year old guy here, retired within the last year, unattached, unchained, free to go wherever I’d like/can afford. I’ve tossed around the Houseboat idea (love to fish, catching dinner off the back porch has real appeal), always been captivated by the RV idea ever since I was a kid, and even considered the small town or rural cabin idea, though not really wanting to go completely off the grid. Bottom line is I haven’t found “it” yet.
    I’m in decent health, have good overall handyman/mechanical skills, have been an aircraft mechanic (USAF) in the past, and retired as a computer/network technician, so I have what I consider to be marketable or ‘barter-able’ skills if I feel the need for a little extra pocket money or whatever.
    I initially discounted the idea of posting here, thinking that folks with an “off-the-grid” mindset probably wouldn’t have much use for a computer guy, but then it dawned on me that you all posted here looking, just like me, so you can’t be computer illiterate.
    Anyway, don’t want this to sound like a ‘looking for work’ situation, just letting it be known that all people looking for a way out aren’t necessarily good at, or looking for a place to grow their own food and hide below the radar. Not to piss off those of you who are…
    My upper comfort zone for investment to make this all happen is around $50k, though I’d love to find a Houseboat or RV for half of that, even if it was a bit of a fixer-upper. No significant other in my life to bring some sort of compromise into play, so I can be content with a very simple setup and lifestyle.
    Currently living in North Central California, love the climate here, but hate the political climate. I don’t want to have to learn Spanish just to ‘get along’ here, and I fear that’s where it’s headed, and maybe sooner than later. I’m tired of living where the focus is all on the downtrodden, illegals, and people who can’t figure out what sex they are. I’d rather pay my taxes someplace where it might go to serve those who have worked for what they have and love this country for what it is and how it got here.
    If any of you out there have any ideas that could help me in my quandary, I’d love to hear them. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

  5. Keri

    Currently 41 I have lived off the grid temporarily a few times with my kids. Once in Stairtown, Jamaica for a year and 11 months, once in Perrysound Canada for a short 3 months, and another time for 3 months in the everglades in Florida. It has always been my dream to by a sizable piece of land in Alaska, and then design and build my own house, greenhouse, and barn. To equip all three with solar and wind power and a well and live off the grid. I’ve always been a single parent and my lack of knowledge when it comes to flying and sailing has always stopped me from going all the way with my dream. However two of my kids have graduated and one has left the nest and two are still under the age of eighteen making three all together are still at home. But I will never be able to live with myself if I don’t do what I feel deep down inside is right. I’m looking for someone who’s been to Alaska before and might know the area better than myself although I’ve done a lot of research on the area it doesn’t put me anywhere close to being an expert and although I do like to hunt and fish that doesn’t mean I can go into an unknown area with my kids and automatically do good. I’m looking for other people with the same interest to venture out with me to Alaska to start a life out on the frontier off the grid. If you’re interested contact me:

  6. befree22

    I desire to live among humans not sheeple. We are social beings and too many people are fearfully living the conformist, virtual reality. I pray that I find likeminded souls who enjoy playing board games, working for self sufficiency, simple living and have integrity and values.

  7. Nick

    There is one place that should’ve made this list and that is the Olympic Penninsula in Washington State. It may get cold in winter time but if you spend the summer gathering dry wood you’ll survive it. Tons of wild game and fishing for a food source. Plus a ton of edible vegetation and mushrooms. Just make sure you learn what’s edible from a professional first or you could be dead in no time. I already have my spot picked out if I ever need to get out of the city in a hurry. I go up there a dozen times a year and just keep up with some maintenance of the area and leaving small amounts of supplies that are hidden away from people and animals.

  8. Thomas Thompson

    Me and long term partner would love to leave the rat race and come to an off grid community, or commune for that matter. We live in Jacksonville, Florida. People no longer care about other people. And, most here are all out for their personal gain. We are both willing to adapt and do whatever is necessary to find our place and contribute. We care about people and are longing to be with like minded individuals for a more meaning full life. Definitely looking to relocate. Hopefully someone has some info that could help, If so, please contact me.

  9. RVinJohn

    To frigin COLD

  10. Candis

    Pikeville, TN may be good for JUST going off grid, but I wouldn’t say it’s safe for survival. If a power-grid interruption occurred, this would be a particularly unsafe place to live. Pikeville is only 38 miles from the Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, so if power failures occurred that would prevent cooling or if an earthquake occurred that could disrupt the nuclear core, you’re looking at a deadly level of radiation in that area with little evacuation time. Don’t get me wrong, it is a very beautiful area. My family has a little cabin right off the Tennessee river up there. As far as seclusion and natural resources go, it is great, but you wouldn’t want a primary residence there, especially if you didn’t have anywhere else to go.

  11. Joe Hawk

    I am a 52 year old single gentleman with a 34′ fully self contained motor home and 1 small wonderful dog in search of Long Term Employment though Short term assignments are welcomed. I am a very responsible, honest, personable, dependable, reliable and very skilled individual, in the many facets of industry that i will mention ahead. I am seeking and prefer a long term position although all short term positions are welcomed as I had already mentioned above. My fields of interest would be in but are not limited to campgrounds, resorts, farmland, construction sites, storage facilities, domestic animal rescue centers, commercial land and or personal property. My experiences include but are not limited to several different types of industry businesses such as security and surveillance, account collections, property management and rentals, property maintenance, housekeeping/custodian, landscape construction, design and sprinkler irrigation installations and the general construction trade. I have experience with all types of heavy equipment operations such as backhoe, front end loaders, graders and forklifts. I also have plumbing, carpentry, masonry and electrical experience. One could describe a person like myself as a very versitile master handyman with work experiences that cross over into many different professions. I am a very mechanically incline person who is Computer literate with great management skills. I am set up to live on site with my fully self contained Class A Motor home with you supplying all necessary utilities as well as a nominal salary, in exchange for my skill set and experience that i bring to the table. I am a legal owner of several different types of firearms and can obtain a CCW license for the purpose of protecting your assets should it be a requirement for the position at hand. I would like to thank you in advance for considering me for any possible opportunities that you may have available that may match my skill set and experiences. NOTE: I will be available to travel should it be necessary for the position at hand, however i would like to remain within the Southwestern United States such as California, Nevada or Arizona. Please add BOONDOCKING to subject line so I can avoid spam. Thank You!!

  12. WestTexasLawrence

    I see no details on Sierra Blanca, west Texas pick. That because you didn’t research it?
    Plenty of land available. $500-$750/acre. Water table varies….from 100 to 400 feet. Typical drilling cost $75/foot. Solar exposure is abundant year around….so going totally off grid solar is very viable. Away from the
    cities, no building codes, no restrictions on DIY projects. Ready Mix Concrete, delivered….$120/cu. yard, plus $4/mile. 5 yards minimum.

    Beware: wood lumber prices are outrageous for lumber that would be rejected elsewhere….they sell as #2 grade….$35/sheet for OSB…..2×4 studs …..$6 each….they’ll look you in the eye and laugh as they rip you off
    on materials.

    But, a partially buried and bermed about home of 2000 square feet CAN be built with your own labor and made self sustaining for about $20,000….and if the land is 10 acres….for less than $30,000 you can have a
    remote rural retreat paid for and self sustaining in the Sierra Blanca, west Texas area.


  13. Alrod53

    Been a while since Ive been on this site. We are looking for a couple to help out here on the farm for some up coming projects about to take place this fall and early winter. Now I say couple (boy,girl) because my wife has things she needs help with, canning and collecting and shelling black walnuts, general girl stuff. And I need help timbering and sawing logs to make lumber to erect a 30×60 greenhouse for an aquiculture program that we are going to start. anyone that might be interested contact us at for more details.

  14. Shane

    I am wanting to live off the grid think out west would be best because of weather. Looking for some sort of community already stable. Not looking for a militant type place looking for peaceful hippie type atmosphere. Email me at

  15. Love Lozz

    Looking for an off grid place here in maine…Looking to find a group of like minded people…

  16. alonzo

    Hello Claire, have you found that cabin yet and if so are there other cabins or available sites around? I’m happy to perhaps get to know someone who desire to live a simple live and who also understand the necessity not to engage in others beliefs and opinion. I took off last year to live a simple and off the grid live but found it difficult finding a place to settle. Found myself in Colorado but never found my nitch. Currently back on the east coast but the am yurning to find that simple off the grid living that I sense you seek. Hoping to connect with you to see if we can assist each other in any way.

  17. Mike_42

    Going off-grid with my backpack into Alaska in the next couple weeks. Anyone that wants to go with, please contact me ASAP (

  18. Sandy444

    I am looking for something for myself in California/Tahoe areas . I am so tired of all the bullshit around me. If anyone has a information of areas that are secluded and available, to live please let me know. I’m roughing it. Possibly camping or buying a small RV. God Bless everyone.. ;)

  19. Jeremiah

    Hi, hello, how do you do?? :) I would just like to start by saying it is nice to run into a few more crazies of the like minded. I had begun to wonder if I was just nuts for being fed up with this rat race of a life people seem so proud to live, and it honestly makes me sick. I am to the point where I just refuse to be a slave to a government that doesn’t care about me or my life in the slightest. That being said.. I am a 33 year old male, from Missouri, who has been commercial fishing the cook inlet in Alaska for 3 seasons off the Kenai Peninsula. I was inspired to go by watching deadliest catch, and I had as serious calling.. and it couldn’t be avoided. I had the calling again a couple more years, and so I returned.. but this time, the calling is different. This time, I wish to go and not come back. I’ve been all over the world, and Alaska still has what’s left of the old fashioned values, and just loaded with decent human beings, that genuinely seem to give a shit about their neighbors. People look out for each other, and take care of each other in times of need.. with out rhyme or reason. I want out of this hell hole, and I want to go back to Alaska! I am completely able to move forward with this alone, however, I thought I would check around and see if anyone else is feeling the same way, and maybe find a companion to share the journey with. I am not requesting any kind of skill set or anything of the kind.. as I said I can do it myself, so I don’t mind helping someone else, and teaching anything I know as well. I am going into this with very little pocket money to start, but I have a few solid ideas I am working with to start out, so it’s not a shot in the dark. I know a few people in Alaska from fishing, and I know someone that would allow me to build shelter and use his land to start things out. I would eventually like to move on of course, but it’s a solid starting point. The summer is full of all sorts of jobs if money is needed.. from working at the canneries, fishing work, help mending nets, buy stations can usually use a little extra help at times.. no shortage for some extra cash if needed. Anyway.. if anyone would like to share ideas, and feels like this is something they would be interested in, reply, or email at

  20. peripateticcitizen

    It has been over five years since the ten best places to live was published. I have read many of the comments from the earliest to the latest to get a feel for the general and specific content and say—WOW!!!

    A bit of personal background may be in order to give my comments some perspective. I grew up in the Midwest and spent most of my first 37 years in Minnesota and Wisconsin except for two years in Connecticut after college. I also lived for six years in Las Cruces, New Mexico–Chihuahuan Desert, four years in Oklahoma north of Tulsa, and thirteen years in Oregon where I have lived in four very different locations and climates–living near Medford in southwestern Oregon, John Day in eastern Oregon, Klamath Falls on the eastern flank of the Cascade Mountains (high desert), and presently reside near Roseburg, Oregon in the moderate Cascade Mountains about two hours west of the Pacific Ocean–also considered southwest Oregon but quite different from Medford, Oregon. While living in the John Day, Oregon area for seven years I worked during the week in Portland, Oregon for over a year but commuted back to my ranch each weekend. So, I have been blessed to live in six different states and always lived rurally in each location–except during the week in Portland for about a year. I also became very familiar with the Ozarks of southcentral Missouri and northern Arkansas while I lived in eastern Oklahoma. I have owned farms and ranches in most of these locations and presently own over two and one-half square miles of Oregon in six different properties–all rural in Douglas, Jackson, and Klamath counties. We also own a home on 49 acres in Siskiyou County, California. My wife and I presently live on 126 acres twelve miles east of Roseburg, Oregon–a community of about 21,000 people in Douglas County, Oregon. Douglas County, Oregon has the distinction of being the Number One lumber producing county in the state of Oregon. Since Oregon is the number one lumber producing state in America I presume that would make Douglas County the number one lumber producing county in America. Douglas Fir is the predominant lumber species here and it literally grows like a weed given the best conditions in the world for the growth of this desirable tree species–wet, cool winters and moderate summers with conducive soil types. This last winter we only had four nights of frost with the lowest temperature being about 20 degrees Fahrenheit. The previous winter we had only five frosty nights. I have been in every state in the lower 48 except Mississippi. I have not been in Hawaii or Alaska.
    Let me recommend a website that I have used extensively over the years that has been extremely valuable to me in selecting places to live– I was single for 50 years so had the freedom to live where I wanted and made it a point to live not where I could make the most money but where I thought I could have the best rural lifestyle. It has been fun, interesting, rewarding, and educational. I used this website often to compare any two towns or cities in America–click the Compare Button to compare any two cities by nine different categories, e.g. Crime, Climate, Cost of Living, People, etc. Before selecting a location to live I highly recommend you consider the “Comfort Index”–one of the subcategories under the Climate category that quantifies how “hot” the summer is. Climate, at least for me, is near top of the list of things to consider when choosing where to live. For example, I was lured from southwestern, Oregon to the Tulsa, Oklahoma area by inexpensive land. But after four Oklahoma summers we couldn’t wait to return to Oregon. The Comfort Index for Tulsa is 27 (the website explains what comfort index is)–one of the worst in the lower 48. There were four months there that most everyone stays indoors with air conditioning. This was not something I was willing to do for the rest of my life. Surprisingly, the other 8 months of the year the weather was fantastic. But I learned that, for me, I could not tolerate that level of discomfort for one-third of the year. Also, for those living in rural Oklahoma and much of the southeastern United States, ticks and chiggers also make being active outdoors during summer a very limiting experience. The ticks in the Midwest and other parts of the country are a non-event once you have encountered the seed ticks and chiggers of Oklahoma!!! The Comfort Index for Roseburg, Oregon is 58–a picnic compared to the Tulsa area. There are places like the Colorado Rocky Mountains towns with much better summer Comfort Indexes–but they will have much colder winters and many feet of snow. Weather may or may not be as important to you but has helped me in getting to places with the type of weather I prefer and may help you also. Their Cost of Living Category and other seven categories may help you also. By the way, they rate Corvallis, Oregon the safest place to avoid natural disasters in the entire 50 states. Oregon, in my opinion, is a very benign state, i.e., few tornadoes, hurricanes, snakes, bugs, earthquakes, wind, etc. Things to be aware of if considering Oregon is zoning and building codes. Some counties are more difficult than others. I got so irritated with Jackson County that it had much to do with moving to Oklahoma. Osage County Oklahoma is very building friendly in comparison and has no rural building codes or inspections required at all. Nevertheless, Oregon has been the Number One move-to state in the nation for the last three consecutive years. That speaks volumes. There is a lot here that is attracting people.

    A few comments about living off-grid and independence. Stephen Covey, in his classic book The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People points out that Interdependence allows attainment of a more successful and fulfilling experience than independence. Having lived through Minnesota blizzards and Oklahoma ice storms where entire communities were incapacitated I concur. The American people are extremely resilient, resourceful, helpful, and unselfish. If a natural or man-induced calamity befalls us the most likely to survive and thrive will not be the hermits and hoarders but the cooperative and communicative. “It is not good for man to be alone”–is good Bible advice and prophecy. No man is an island. If you look at all indigenous societies you do not see hermits and hoarders thriving–you see small cooperative societies in which the inhabitants participate and cooperate. We should be acquiring the skills, capabilities, and resources with an attitude of how I may help others when they are in need. The individuals that did the best in the Minnesota blizzards were the ones with the shovels and snowblowers going about the neighborhood clearing the sidewalks of the elderly and disabled without expectation of reward. Americans are at their best when times are worst. To be hunkered down in a bunker defending your stash is a sure way to die a miserable life of selfishness. Better to die of starvation surrounded by friends and family. Trust in God–he promises our bread and water to be sure. I am 62 and have never missed a meal. We have an amazing and loving God.
    The secret to living well is to be content with what you have. The secret to getting ahead financially is to live below your means and invest the portion of income you could have spent. This is contrary to the way most Americans live and our government operates. The results of violating this basic financial principle are evident throughout our country and the world.
    If we suffer a prolonged disaster living in a small home or shelter with minimal requirements will greatly ease the need for heating and cooling. Wood is abundant throughout most of America but it may be impossible to obtain gasoline to cut firewood with a chainsaw. Heating a large home with wood obtained by axe, handsaw, and maul splitting would be challenging for almost all. Most folk do not even own a handsaw, axe, or maul. Living without air-conditioning in much of America would be debilitating for many. An old-fashioned wood cookstove will be a very desirable home appliance–useful during summer and winter. A half-dozen chickens and a couple dairy goats can provide a lot of protein and may be fairly self-sustaining. It also takes about four years to get a good garden producing. A garden is generally not very productive the first few years. It takes a while to learn the best things to grow in an area and to get the soil and conditions optimized for production. So, if you think you are going to make the move when the disaster strikes you are mistaken. There is much lead time required.
    Avoid most of the advice in magazines and newspapers regarding the best places to live. Their research is done from mining statistics without the author having ever set foot in the towns they are recommending and not recommending. Those places are generally for people with a lot of money. The best, most welcoming towns and locations are generally among the lowest income and least glitzy–beautiful places with untrammeled country roads–the “Blue Highways”.
    Here are my favorite places: Despite the rather horrible summers–although slightly (but not much) better than northeastern Oklahoma–the Ozarks of southern Missouri. This area is blessed with incredible freshwater springs that pour pure fresh cool water in huge volumes throughout the year. And, the real estate value (what you get for your dollar) is the best in the USA!!! Hardwood fuel is abundant and there are local people everywhere that already know how to survive if a calamity hits. A great community spirit exists in almost every rural small town. Most everyone has heard of the Ozarks. But, if you have never been there go see this incredible American treasure. I suggest Baker Realty and any United Country Real Estate Office–
    California gets a bad rap and it deserves most of it. But not all of California is the same. That part of California north of Redding is completely different than its southern cousin–and it has the best weather in the entire USA!!!–and the real estate is affordable–but you will still have to deal with California fees and taxes. But don’t let those put you off until you check it out–especially Siskiyou County!!! You will be glad you did.
    If you can tolerate living where there is very little surface water, i.e., rivers, lakes, creeks, ponds, then check out Cochise County, Arizona near Sierra Vista and the hidden jewel, Bisbee, Arizona. The comfort index in Bisbee (65) makes it considerably more comfortable in the summer than Minneapolis, Minnesota (48). It has a great year round weather because it sits above 5000 feet above sea level. The terrain is hilly to mountainous oak savannah–not at all like Tucson or Phoenix. Cool summers and crisp, clear winters. But, you have to be able to live without a daily or weekly water experience. I found out after six years of the Chihuahaun desert near Las Cruces, New Mexico I cannot live for a prolonged period of time without surface water nearby. Having grown up in Minnesota, the Land of Ten Thousand Lakes, there just wasn’t enough water for me there. This part of Arizona is not near as bleak as the Chihuahuan Desert of southern New Mexico.
    If we were not already living in Douglas County, Oregon I would move to Siskiyou, County California because of the weather there. The winters here can be quite gray and long. This is the one thing about this part of Oregon to consider. Some people are not bothered by the winters–they are green and beautiful and mild with almost no snow. If you get out into the weather it is quite pleasant and refreshing. The nearby Oregon coast is the most beautiful of America’s coast say many.
    Here are a couple other websites: if you want to compare other countries besides America in terms of freedom. America has been declining in freedom over the last decade!!! to compare how each of the 50 states compare in freedom. A great website for you to study in order to understand how each state ranks in freedom. All states were created equal but things have changed–they are definitely not all equal now. There are states you may want to avoid based on your personal preferences and demands for personal freedom. The Dakotas rate very well. Check out for ranches is Burleigh County, North Dakota if you can hack the cold. Bismarck, North Dakota is a great place to live if you can survive in snow and ice without any trees. I had enough of that growing up in neighboring Little Falls, Minnesota–about a stones throw east of Lake Wobegon.

  21. claire

    Very interesting concept off -griding and since I am winging this on my own (looking for a place) I can only add that I would love to find a cabin off the road , I don’t discuss politics, I don’t bother with other people’s beliefs – they are their own – and am currently residing in nm though not from here. If anyone knows of any cabins within 50 miles of santa fe – very inexpensive – I would like to hear from you. I am also open to finding one semi close to oceanside ca as i love the ocean as well as the mountains, and of course the wonderful weather. I have tried to find a companion who is like-minded and didn’t so I figure i’ll just figure it out on my own with God’s help. I am over 50, act, sing, interpret so that’s why I need to be within a commutable distance of people.

  22. John Davise

    I and my wife seek other like minded people to form a secure base in the mountain areas of TN.We want to be able to defend the base and recruit more people as the SHTF. My favorite web site is:

  23. Eddy Voss

    Savvy discussion ! I was fascinated by the points ! Does anyone know where I would be able to find a template NJ Residential Lease Agreement document to fill in ?

  24. Mary

    Two widows, on middle age and other senior, need good reasonable land for survival, commune okay, pref in nw mountains, like to have isolation, but may consider commune of the right minded people. we are not into drugs, but do want to live off grid and share a peaceful life. prefer to find a male to sure life with, too. but if I cant, then we just need someplace where we and our fellow commune residences can live and help each other and look after each other incase end of days or other natural disasters do befall the country. If you can help, contact me at thank you.

  25. MAT

    I have the perfect Prepper Property in Oklahoma. 80 Acres with spring fed pond and river. Only one road to it and its at the end of the road. Perfect for an underground Silo. Lot’s of wild life. It’s for sale. Send me email if interested.

  26. tatiana

    IN the mountains of CentrAL aMERICA ALL IS PEACEFUL AND IT’S THE PERFECT CLIMATE FOR GROWING FOOD ANd not relying on horrible weather. The weather is always 60’s to mid 70’s never any higher or lower, If anybody is intrerested i live in Panama and have for over five years and I live simply but i”d like to go off grid. I have an extra room for during our planning:)
    I am fluent in spanish and can get land at a local’s not gringo price:) if interested add me as a friend and email me.
    I am looking to partner with someone to go off the grid. I am flexible on place but not climate. I have grown accustomed to beautiful cool not hot and not freezing weather. I am american and the daughter of expats living in Central America and the caribbean as a child and returning due to the kindness and non-materialistic way of the latinos. Rutral land is cheap and I have explored all temperate areas from Mexico to Peru and parts of patagonia. please rply with questions!!!! P.S.I am young but I am not ageist I love all people regardless of age ability or creed.
    Peace and hope you make it off the grid,

    • David Muikkin

      Im ready to come there if your still looking for someone to hang with . i can build or fix anything, lived in jungles, need a change, David

  27. tatiana

    I have a place in panama I am an American expat and can get us cheap land I speak spanish fluently and it is safe and beautiful here. International living ranked it top 10 places to retire. I am in the bread basket. Beautiful pristine mountains of panama and they have easy ways to get residency especially for retirees which I am not i am young but I am not ageist. Just looking for like minded people. Check out my ad on landbuddy here. Peace be with you.

  28. JimBob6.8

    Jimeny Cricket! What a long and wandering thread!
    IMHO the what will be crucial to success for EVERYONE is a positive attitude resulting from our close personal relationship with God.
    The title of the thread pertained to the best locations for living off the grid to survive when our civilization malfunctions (sans the extended warranty).

  29. Muldoon

    All great comments.
    But when I think of living off the land, I analyze it this way.
    Land, resouces, location.
    Cheap land is fine, but does the location provide the resouces. I live in Wisconsin along Lake Michigan. We don’t have real cheap land, but the resouces in my area is abundant..Clean well water, great land, (short growing season, but can build greenhouses), inland lakes for fishing, Lake Michigan for big fish, (boat needed?, clean fish if you go out 10 miles) hunting if you are a meat eater, abundant herbs in the Kettle Moraine Forest, (wild berries, asparagas, etc.) Excellent organic dairy farmers, Milk, Cheese, etc.
    So, you get the point. Resouces surrounding your land, especially excellent spring water, is everything.

  30. Ben Angle

    32yr old male Army veteran looking to go off grid. Please contact me at

  31. Kim

    Me and my significan other are serious about wanting to go off the grid. However, we have enough sense to know that it is going to take plenty of research before we can even begin our journey. Also we have kids in their teens who we may let them make their own decision whether to venture out with us or not at the time we are ready….could be 4 years from now. However, If i could convince them we would do it a lot quicker. We do know someone who lives in a community in the Ozark mountains with their little girl. If anyone can give me any insight as to where to even begin as far as what basic knowledge we need to know and where to look for communities such as his it would be greatly appreciated. Like many others it is our dream to live simple away from the rush of the world. We are both very willing to work hard to survive on our own. We just need help with start up ideas. Thanks so much!!

  32. Patrick

    Im in martinsburg wv and looking for a community if anyone is willing to take me in. My email is

  33. Alrod53

    So it has been four and almost half years ago since I posted this article. And I have read every single post sometimes more than once. Very interesting reading everyone’s ideas and critiques. I had been on this site a few years before I posted anything on this off grid site, and I just followed it while doing research on where to go off grid to. We moved from central Florida east coast. Florida is not the place to go off grid iny opinion, bugs and taxes will eat you alive. Lived there twenty plus years. We moved to a place that has four seasons. Suits us better and we’ve been off grid almost five years now. You don’t need others to go off grid with you if you do your homework and aren’t a lazy ass about it. Well ….you do need common sense
    Something that is almost a super power three days.
    And if you don’t have that then you better have money so that you can pay someone to set things up for ya.
    Living off the grid is work and lots of it depending on how far off the grid you are. Sort of in levels of
    Off gridednes you are.
    First is no utilities
    Second is not using the grocery store and growing and canning your own veggies truely providing for your self and animals.
    Three is all the above plus not buying petro fuels propane, propane powered stuff is not off grid you still have to buy the propane so your still dependent on buying that.
    And the final degree is forth all the above.
    You are sustaining your self and animals not having to buy feed for any members of your family and are able to pay your taxes on what your able to sell if your surpluses of talents while not having to have a real job.
    We’re currently aproching number two.
    I’m sure this is going to piss some of you off, but oh well.

  34. Alrod53

    Well we survived another winter here at Endless Enigma Farm and already getting the needed materials for the Gothic arch greenhouse started. We are not going to have a garden planted in the ground this year. The whole plot is going to be the future aquaculture greenhouse, twenty six feet wide by fifty five feet long. Two 3000 gal trout tanks, one 1000 gal prawn tank. Plant grow bed filtration. Planning on heating tanks with my home built snorkel type underwater woodstoves to keep everybody warm In the winter,( fishies & plants).
    I’m still plugging away at the topi also did a first fitting last Sunday, yes I have a picture but as long as I’ve been a member on this site I’ve not been able to post any, might even be less chance now since we both only iPhone it now. Maybe Nick or wretha might let me email it to them so they could post it 4 us. Lol
    So we had a pretty wild winter here in Wv. Lots of wet snow at one time toppled two of our big oaks both over 100 ft tall, some of the limbs were innoculated with oyster mushroom spawn and should produce by fall and we are going to experiment and see if they will fruit through winter in the root cellar. Also well into our motor oil eating mushroom project, yep mushrooms eat used engine oil from cars and trucks.
    Any one interested in learning give us a shout. We anyways have room for good help. Alrod53

  35. Suzie


  36. Suzie


  37. Rtck

    I’m going to sell my home and buy a houseboat to live on. they are already wired for battery and For around $2000 I can get a solar system that will even run the refrigerator/freezer I’m excited about the move I can live free of all bills except the gas I do plan to drive it .This is the best way and not loose any of the comforts I’m used to. I also have 15 acres that I want to put a cabin on. I would like to meet people who want to live with me and share expenses.

  38. Barbara

    Michel, what would the benefits be in living in New Hampshire or Maine if/when the SHTF?
    For example in the midwest, it’s not an ideal setting however, if you can tolerate the long and cold winters, you would not be dealing with the city dwellers looking for water/food/shelter. and while there is an abundance of wildlife, water and woods the extremes would eat a person up and spit them out with no experience or preparation. Not to mental physical and mental strength. I plan on visiting that area in the fall and really looking forward to it because I have not ever been to that part of the country. Peace! Barbara in MN.

  39. alrod57

    So here in West Virginia it has been a relatively mild winter so far, and we have the taco stand closed for the winter. So I have been scouring the woods for straight young trees to cut for the tipi, winter project
    I hope everyone is doing well. Alrod

    • Nick Rosen

      Hey Alrod – welcome back – Mr L – Hope you get your Tipi up fast and please send us a photo when its done

  40. Linda

    Are you kidding me? The US has more “untouched” land that you could even dream of… to say NOTHING of the peopleless deserts and the uncharted wilds. You have evidently not ventured out into the wilds of America!

  41. ShugP

    Live in Texas now and have been considering land in the Sierra Blanca area. Anyone know what the hunting situation is? Is water available without digging a well? Any pros and cons would be appreciated.

  42. Rhiedyk

    Read a great deal of this. And I am just amazed at how much effort and points of view and options and ideals are here just in this topic alone.

    Thanks every one for the in put on all of this.

  43. raghuram

    i’m promoting an absolute wilderness location(60 km from bangalore india) a remote place abutting nh 47 banked by a stream and forest on one side and numerous hillocks on the other side

  44. doomas

    got a place in up state new York I would part with for the right,,,if your still looking

  45. danielcgarfield220

    hey Bruce comment 348 i would be interested if you could contact me at

    If anyone has land that is suitable to live on for cheap i am interested. Im trying to start a lif OTG

  46. doomas

    Alrod 53
    jefflholt ‘at’

  47. Alrod53

    Send me your email address. Had it at one time but the ol laptop crashed and lost it. Alrod

  48. Alrod53

    Our email is
    Look forward to hearing from any interested.

  49. Barbara

    Alrod what is your email???

  50. doomas

    Does any one know how to make a water pump out of a hydraulic cylinder,, used to circulate water for a garden or house.

  51. doomas

    Alrod53. gots lots of good imput for early gardening. free heet and air conditioning. interested e-mail me.

  52. doomas

    thanks Alrod53

  53. ALrod53

    Howdy folks , been a while since I’ve been on this site. Lots of comments and ideas I see.
    Has anybody actually made it off grid yet?
    I also see lots of dreamers that’s ok follow your dreams and make them come to fruition. If you want something bad enough you can make it happen. As for us been off the grid now almost four years.
    And getting easier all the time as we get more things in place. We also started a restaurant very small carry out place selling Mexican food doing very well but this past winter here in WV was brutal so we are thinking about closing in December and opening in spring and also looking into taking it off grid also. Working on building wood fired pizza ovens to offer more fare to our menu. You can check us out on
    We have thrown it out there for some help on Endless Enigma farm but so far no takers,
    Even have a small cabin built for two.
    Just glad to see so many posts and ideas on this blog I posted a few years ago. Doomas sorry to hear about your situation hang in there, prayers for you every day from us. See if you can get medical mj to help.
    Anyone that thinks that they might want to try the off grid thing for a while to wet their feet give us a shout. Later… Alrod

  54. doomas

    took some doing folks but seem to be working now. thanks to everyone for their help.

  55. doomas

    I have a rustic cabin for sale in up state new York…up two 10plus acres. loft,,porch wood shed…control of the 24/7–365 spring..1mi. off highway,,,5mi off I-81,,,40mi. south of the boarder.

  56. doomas

    used to give a lot of people help figuring out ways to get ahead with gardening and home power…now when I need alittle help,,im ban from posting it. whats up with that,,,,

  57. doomas

    land and cabin for sale

  58. doomas

    land and cabin for sale..send e-mail

  59. doomas

    10ac. timber ,,good spring, rustic cabin. up st. new York…private road, 1mi. off highway..5mi from I-81..30mi. from Canada. for sale. right price.

  60. Mr.Hamman

    In a lot of ways this blog is wrong with the areas of said living, in general of what many people brought to light on here, but as for some others that stated it was solely for the purpose of living off grid; those are the people that are meant to write on this blog. I have to write my opinion as well after seeing so many putting their well opinionated ideals on here and useful knowledge. One thing to consider for all those just wanting to go off grid and not include all of your loved ones and friends; how much do you actually care about our race in whole? For those that have answered in the form of saying they will stay where they are and make due with what they have is a noble suggestion. I too will prepare for the worst and hope for the best and will continue to educate myself as I have always done. Living with my grandparents is a great experience because you learn a lot of the old world and how the changes of it will affect the future. Sorry to say but there will be no future if everyone does decide to hide as many have said on here but that’s obvious. If we do stick to educating ourselves to make a difference, instead of educating ourselves on how to just survive alone, with small groups, or “communities” ect… then and only then, we as a large existing race…may… have a chance to truly survive almost any event; of course unless its a cataclysmic event. Those with the right power and control over our economy and emotions, have thought of how to survive better then us all I’m sure and may even be on this blog just to misguide you alone, deeply consider that. Whether they believe it to be for the greater good that they choose to misguide us or for evil intent on controlling things for better lives’ for themselves; someone or rather many others are planning for our race to survive to the best of their knowledge and way better then those ill prepared. Even for you well prepared humans you have a slim chance to survive any of these horrific events mentioned and that’s not me being negative, that’s being realistic. I myself am optimistic person and always have been despite what may be implemented here on or said previously on in my response. I want my family to live because I know them and they are great caring humans, with standards of being well educated; even though we have never had funds or the means to live the best like some but just by making it by like most. I wont sit here and blame the short comings and misfortunes of my own family on here, and all the others that struggle and wish to get away, on the ones taking advantage of us good hearted humans either. After all aren’t they as well trying to protect their own as much as you would by yourself or with a few others? If I were to show up at your “offthegrid” spot (knowing I personally had no intention on harming you or your family) came seeking water or food, should I feel as safe with you or your community with what judgment you shall pass to deem me worthy of partaking what you have saved for you and yours? While “some” of you decided to seek shelter alone with minimal consideration of others?? Opposed to these so called tyrants who have taken consideration of most of their families or as the same as you just the consideration of a few or few hundred people??? All those questions are rhetorical, I would only try to trust someone that I don’t know as you would try to trust me to approach on you, while surviving or even while merely living a so called repetitive drone life to some. I have no trouble understanding those humans that want to live easier, cheaper, greener, or however you seem to choose is the best way to live. After spending much time reading many of your post, in my educated opinion: don’t ever choose to live on a boat or near any of the said areas of where these truly educated humans have warned you about, where not to live; that is if you are that type that feels like there will be a reason to expect to survive most or almost any of these aforementioned events by others ( if these events ever come about). I actually now decided not to go off grid, which isn’t why I came on here I was actually looking for ideas on how to. The reason being is because I lost everything and actually wanted to go off grid; especially after educating myself and quote unquote waking myself up. I worked for the state, had great benefits, was a supervisor, and lost it all because simply my general foreman had it out for me because I wanted equality with in ranks and fairness for us hard workers. With all the years of hard dedicated work it was wiped away clean with out recovery accept by being recycled back into the system in the so called “low man on the totem pole” position. Anyways, I blame myself for wanting to get away in the manner to survive alone, when I have friends and a family who show me what it means to keep caring. To keep the dream alive that with most of our ancestors blood spilled was to make this nation what was to truly be a nation with races to be held equal, to prosper, and to learn from our mistakes so that we may not repeat them(after most of the racism subsided of course). I have the military in my family, the country folk, the city slickers, and all different races in all different forms and most are all in my opinion upstanding humans that would deserve to be in a better world then those that choose to make this one worse, by force or by doing nothing. We the people in our nation that believe ourselves to be truly righteous and want the best for our kind should educate those in need and for those that really wish to be so; because it will always and be easier help those who want to help themselves or help others. “Some” of you need to think deeper on here then most of what has been written in these post…please, from one dying human to another, don’t let the majority of ignorance get you down to seek answers or info like this, stay united like many believe on here and lend a hand or ask for a helping hand as well. I’m 29 and from your so called sewage state NJ, which is rich with history and beauty just as any other states, along with its downsides as well. I believe in southern hospitality and enjoy the convenience of the city within good reason. I understand the need though for a cleaner, better future, for us as all. As well as, the need to stop those corrupting what we’ve built as the people of this nation. From those governing our nation greedily, to foreign countries wanting ours to fall, to the simple people of our nation breaking the backs of the better middle and lower classes ( i.e. like your welfare abusers that have multiple partners, multiple kids, without worry of repercussions). I have learned and understand more then quite of bit of people from this state and many others because I have been around this country a bit and know many kinds of people. From almost every state and other countries as well. We all share the same fate but lets use our time to make things better for those who shall proceed us; no matter where we are…because like a few said on these post “we are all in it together” whether we are on equal playing fields or not. If you have lost hope though try to go on and find something that will spark yours up again like a lot of your post have done for me. Sorry for this being so long but thanks for your time if you read this and thanks to you… the people that “get it” and wish to learn more. Best wishes to you all.

  61. Lucy

    We are going to try this in Washington State. 5 acres for $25000 is not horrible taxes about 3000 a year which isn’t too bad if you are relocating from the capitalist hell that is CALIFORNIA. I like that WA is open to living off the grid and there’s LOTS of water in the ground and from the sky to catch. We’re buying about an hour or two from Major City (Seattle). Closest neighbor is half mile away. Just looking for sustainability and privacy.

  62. Sue Kathryn O'Neal

    Hey, it ain’t over till it’s over. I’m a woman sick to death of industrialization. I think I just can’t bend anymore. Worked all my life and am seeking an inexpensive acre with water Want a houseboat and garden. Don’t really care where, I am the magic. Please let me know if you have or hear of something.

  63. doomas

    well been gone for awhile..seems everyone is doing well. I just had another bad bout with cancer. this time they took my right leg and half my pelvis. making new plans, learning to cope.

  64. Will Adams

    I’m looking to move to a OTG residence without purchasing any land, paying any taxes, or asking permission from any statist. Living in Seattle now, I have been a builder and I know that I can bring a lot to the table. If anyone has any input, PLEASE contact me:

    • WrethaOffGrid

      Just curious Will, where do you think you can set up a home without buying, owning, renting, paying taxes or getting permission? Sounds like an interesting idea, but someone will own that land and might not look too kindly at a squatter…. or perhaps you want to find someone who would allow you to live free on their property…

  65. Tracy

    I live in Mtn Home, AR & love it here. There are lots of places on the outskirts where a person could live off the grid. We live 5 miles outside of town by Lake Norfork. It’s quiet here & peaceful. Eventually when we retire, we’ve talked about buying some land further out & build a small cabin where it’s even more isolated. Mountain Home is a wonderful place to live, sure there are a lot of retirees, but that’s because it is so inviting! Mild winters, lakes & rivers, mountains, great fishing. Small clean town with a beautiful college & million dollar new library, great schools for the kids. It also has more millionaires per capitol. Most of them living on the outskirts of town. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, this is just my view of Mtn Home, AR.

  66. Cygnet Brown

    In about a month or so I am going to be moving to Alton, MO! I think that area is the best kept secret in the country. Better get your place now because people in that area know how to defend themselves and they do know how to work together!

  67. Vivid Dawn

    Eh…this article seems to focus mainly on cost of land. That’s great when you’re initially prepping. What about long term survival? Cedar City Utah is listed. The problem I have with this, is it snowed (and I don’t mean just a little dusting, but a DUMP of it) on Mother’s Day this year. It also snowed on Memorial Day in Ogden a few years ago. And there’s been several years of snow before Halloweeen. How are you supposed to have decent gardens for food if you have snow for 9 months?? Personally, I’d rather live somewhere that snow is minimal or not at all, like in the Gulf of Mexico area (yes there are hurricanes, that’s why you have a bunker!)

  68. Domenick Pucillo

    Sierra Blanca in Texas is an excellent choice. Just make sure your ready for the hot summers.

  69. John

    I thought this was called comments not write a book. Most people are going to fall into 2 groups. The people that don’t know and the people that will be glad to stuff their opinions down their throat. The really funny part is when all the”Preppers” migrate to the country “The Country” will become the city

  70. Dean Correll

    I love the thought of going off grid. Questions I have concern prevailing winds that can carry radiation or wind born contaminants from large cities or Nuke plants. Also, accessible clean untreated water. Also growing seasons for those of us who don’t hunt or fish. Does this list take these concerns into consideration? -Dean

  71. Douglas

    All right, Oklahoma, yea I, a city boy in OKC but anyway , noticed Red Oak Ok was #1 place, I’ll have to look it up, nvr heard of it, but SE oklahoma is beautiful, and I hear there are folks living out there in the ouachita mountains. Off grid. Yea

  72. bpinmn

    Rusty, I like what you say! Thanks for your insight. You are correct, doing something out of fear is not right. I would agree that Central America is probably a place to be. Do you think it’s true that if/when TSHTF here it’s going to be a lot worse in the 3rd world countries?
    How do you like your earth sheltered home> I am thinking of one myself.
    Have a great day.

  73. Rusty

    We’ve been off grid in an earth sheltered home we built out of native materials on 50 acres within a state forest in 1984…we grow, gather, hunt, fish and barter for 75 percent of our food…provide our own fuel wood and have more than ample electricity…and good water…very important. We have a small electric truck which we charge with our pv system. One thing I’d like to add to this interesting discussion is to remember that you will get old, you may fall down and go boom, or you may have a stroke…that’s what happens over time…be well and do what you’re doing because you enjoy it, not out of fear. None of us are getting out of here alive. Build community and have friends who are like minded, who also know how to garden, raise food and treat the earth with some respect.

    If I was to do it all over again, I would probably do it in Nicaragua as someone mentioned. I worked there in 1988 for UNICEF taking medicines into the mountains…a wonderful bunch of people there.

    The USA is being taken over by big money and big oil…pipelines everywhere, fracking destroying waters, tar sands are headed across some of the largest aquifers and the great lakes. Be aware that your backyard may be next.

  74. Bruce

    Just outside of Weston WV is Georgetown . I own 33 acres of wooded land that runs along a sloping hill side. There is free natural gas and lots of water. Anyone want to build a bunker or cabin ?

  75. Jay

    @John, Can I have your 1911 after you blow your brains out?

    @Happy Man, That was FUNNY!

    I read every comment here. Very interesting, informative, and enjoyable. A few of you may be nuts, but many of you have some good wisdom and knowledge to share (would love to meet and spend time with @Awshoot!). For me, the worst part was the slog through the horrendous writing. Seems like most of you may have flunked third-grade English. Anyhoo, here’s my perspective on all this.

    Throughout life, we always weigh the risks of certain things against others. For example, if you’re a strong believer in self-defense, do you carry a concealed gun to work, when it’s forbidden by your company? In this case, you’re simply weighing the risk of getting caught and fired against the risk of being unarmed when you might need to defend yourself against a criminal. We weigh risks and decisions like this against conflicting ones all the time throughout life.

    That’s exactly how I look at this entire discussion of being prepared for the end of the world. In my opinion, the chances of many of the things you all are talking about happening actually happening are relatively low. I could be wrong, but I’m not horribly worried. Regardless, each of us must weigh the time, money, and energy of spending our whole lives preparing for these arguably remote possibilities. Unless I win the lottery, I will just be prepared to live in my house in the city without power and some other conveniences for limited time. I have gas for a generator (and, of course, the generator), my wife grows vegetables, and we have enough food for probably a month. I’m also prepared to defend what we have. Also, ammunition and components are good for barter in bad times. We will continue to bolster our preparedness, but only for things that I think are more likely to happen, not for things that I think are very unlikely.

    I realize that many of you just want to get out of the city and live a simpler life. More power to you. That’s a great goal, but you’re certainly giving up many modern comforts. I absolutely understand the appeal, though. I admit that it’s far too easy to get sucked into the rat race.

    In closing, here is a website that I’m currently going through. It’s got loads of information that’s pertinent to someone in my situation with my goals. I would recommend it to everyone here, although a few of you might not care about it. It’s incredibly thorough and also very enjoyable reading. It’s about someone who went through Katrina and putting his life back together. Lots of great info.

  76. John

    Ok first of all I live in Wister Oklahoma about 12 miles east of red oak. So I’m going to clear this up for y’all I apologize in advance for my spelling and language but Im just a dumb ol country boy.

    So 1 land stays in the families down here and if it does come up for sale around red oak it’s going to be about 1000$ bucks an acre and the growing season is all year round we have a lot of cattle out here so in the summer we grow hay and dying the late fall we plant winter wheat. The land is worth the money but the majority of people don’t want to actually get outside and work so take it for what it’s worth.

    2 I have lived here my entire life I have never seen drugs only heard about it on the tv those people in OKC that said were the septic triangle can go FUCK themselves it’s a damn highway they grow It farther south and transport it through here that’s why we have a lot of drugs here.

    3 around red oak and wister we have an abundance of wildlife I have killed 11 deer this year and that will feed me my family and we have some saved up in case something happens not too mention the amount of catle we have own here which probably rival the deer population overall if you ask anybody down here for help you got it the farther south you go towards honobia the more secluded your going to get. But don’t listen to some dumbass talk about my home when he ain’t never even fuckin been here

  77. ALrod53

    Well Denver, i know that where we live any gang members around here are going to stick out like a sore dick and will have a thousand redneck guns turned on them if they make one wrong move.
    Most of us have several BIG dogs that eat straingers That is our off grid alarm system and security..

  78. Denver

    I want to start with a thanks to all of you. I have gained a lot of insight. And, I am glad to know, that, there are others, whom share my fore-sight.
    However, the biggest flaw in most of these plans is “buying land”.

    When you buy land the government knows where you are, therefore, you are still a target for take-over. Besides, a deed will become worthless when society collapses.

    Someone mentioned F.E.M.A., earlier. Don’t be fooled, F.E.M.A has millions of plastic coffins, and hundreds of concentration camps all over the U.S., waiting for the people who seek their help when Armageddon comes. If you don’t believe me, do a google search on F.E.M.A. coffins. In fact, Obama just bought another million dollars worth, to add to the collection.

    Communities are a nice idea. They are a great source for encouragement as you move away from the chains of society. But, in the end it will be every man for himself.

    Going off-grid is a great way to live, I plan on doing so, myself. But, when the apocalypse happens, it will come down to who has the best hunting, hiding, and survival skill. Only, after the dust settles, will there be a possibility in building strength in numbers. And, even, then, it will be a gamble. It will be very difficult to know who and how far you can trust someone.

    As far as self-sustaining communities go, you are building your own prison if you plan to stay in them, due to the fact, that, you will have to guard the walls 24/7.

    We are, already, dealing with home-invasions by gangs. These gangs, along with the government, will have no choice, other than, to fan out, once they have devoured the resources around them. They will be relentless in their pursuit. And, these communities are what they will be looking for.

    These are just some things to think about as we prepare for the end.. Good luck to you all…

  79. Alek

    Nothing is better than SW Florida , taxes are low , son 24/7 365 days a year , infrastructure is superb
    You never want to live in remote places. especially during collapse

  80. bpinmn

    This has been like a book to read and really educational information (well, most responses) that has went in many directions.
    Coming from a psychological/educational background I only saw one post that brought up the “contentment” form E.M’s post which is “A source of satisfaction”
    Rob the Marine (thanks for serving) your post was right on man. Good writing.
    In my opinion, it doesn’t matter if you end in woods, water the mountain air or in the deep south heat on land– you are going to need basic survival skills period. Doesn’t mean you cannot learn them fast.
    Karen, post #248 I really wanted to talk more with you on your skills and so forth but there was no email listed on your post. You said “I thought of somewhere in Scotland, the islands, or north, near Skye. Been there, and my heart hasn’t come home yet .If you have a place to fulfill these needs, let me know.” Write back on this thread where we can write to you. While leaving the country may not be an option nor a preference for people. There are MANY places around the world where you can live for under $5oo.00 per month.
    I LOVE the US and personally would not leave but I am not judging others who would.

    Kelli post 328 – I could have written this! In the same boat as you are with business and home…baby steps hah!! I will read your “jingling our Change”
    Toby: Where did you go man? Give us an update.
    John: You may be holding a gun in your hand waiting for that day to use it and feel like there are no options for you living on disability, but your knowledge and the gift of your writing on these very pages wow, don’t downplay that. Many people may don’t have a family they would be honored to prep for or share a sustainable life but sharing your knowledge is huge.
    We have business and a house that we are selling…I am documenting our “move” from about a 3000 sq ft home – to a really, really small cabin in the woods with a few acres. Our expenses will go from about $5000.00 a month to $500.00 a month. Most of our friends and family think we have went off the deep end and are crazy. It hasn’t been easy and nobody said it would. We did buy acreage about 10 years ago so now it is coming to reality. There’s no way that I would have even thought of doing something like this without doing some research on the area but that was all based on fear back them. The more knowledge and guidance from people like you on these pages gives others confidence too!

    It’s funny because my husband is more of the “peppers” mind set and I am more of the “sustainable living” and as with many people who have commented on this site, the two are not the same. We are both 50/50 each way. He wants to protect the family, guns ammo food and I want to leave no trace, attempting to spend very little of the fake money.

    Somebody who wants to live a sustainable life may not care less about what the N.W.O has in store but wants to live “off grid” and not be dependent and handing practically everything earned $ to a gas, electric and or government, insurance VS- Peppers (I have a friend doing this) they live in a suburb of a big city and there whole basement well let’s just say they could live a good year holed up down there. They are perfectly content in the city and want to stay in the city, work their jobs.
    On a side note: I worked with a bunch of people that once when the topic came up about how governments are taking peoples pensions. ((Google Argentina and their collapse) and 100% of my colleagues said “this could never happen here” Why not I ask? It’s like a deer in the headlights look!
    They were mortified at the possible fact and looking like what are you talking about?
    I simply said “What would you do IF all of your $ was taken out of your retirement, wiped out, gone…? savings or wherever it’s safely kept.
    I have nothing in banks and am not hoarding any money or food. Like most of you have said. You will be able to live so long, depending on conditions in whatever state you are in. If you can manage on so little – or things we often will think will simply always be there may not someday.
    Fresh air, a source of food (that you can actually live on) IF all of the fake crap is out of the stores. fresh h20 or a way to purify, a simple shelter and if you do choose a climate with a harsher climate, a heat source. More and more people are beginning to wake up and it takes people like all of us. Our old neighbors keep saying “we will come up and find you guys in the woods when TSHTF…ok that’s find IF they can make it here without any types of preparation. It’s like anything. You plan for the unthinkable and hope for the best???
    Below is a list of Maslow’s needs- and I wonder if some of these items could be attained if/when TSHTF?
    The original hierarchy of needs:
    1. Biological and Physiological needs – air, food, drink, shelter, warmth, sex, sleep.
    2. Safety needs – protection from elements, security, order, law, limits, stability, freedom from fear.
    3. Social Needs – belongingness, affection and love, – from work group, family, friends, romantic relationships.
    4. Esteem needs – achievement, mastery, independence, status, dominance, prestige, self-respect, respect from others.
    5. Self-Actualization needs – realizing personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences.

    Godspeed to all of us on this journey!

  81. K-Dub

    Oh and although joem789 will likely not be on here checking comments kentucky isnt prone to tornadoes west liberty had 2 in one week the only ones in 60 years 4 people died from being severly unprepared and in unsafe structures there was no weather warning the town has no tornado sirens but if ur doing this to survive an apocalypse of some sorts u must not rely on any government or political offical for safety plans and warnings. This tri state area actually seems to be a great place in america as far as weather wise.

  82. K-Dub

    I live on a couple hundred acres in west liberty I was lucky enough to have it handed down in my family since the late 1800s very plentiful in small game & some large game populations if u can find land to buy its possible to become very ssecluded moderately easy fresh water options & some of the best land to grow bountiful crops of various varieties. Kentucky in general is good for living off the land west liberty is the spot to be if ur paranoid of people as they are few and often far between.

  83. Happy Man

    When the end comes, probably nuclear, I am going to run naked and laughing into the street and be frizzled to ashes in a nano-second. Why? I don’t want to survive if it means sharing the tangled radio-active remains of this world with a bunch of paranoid people armed to the teeth with guns and a garage full of baked beans. If their bullets don’t kill you, their farts will ….

  84. Dakota

    It doesnt matter where you live. Only the strong and well prepared will survive.

  85. Terry

    Survival requires harvesting your own food, and you wont be finding that in the desert in Nevada, at least not enough to survive on for any length of time.

  86. Bubbha

    I don’t care for money or a boss so off the grid sounds great. I been homeless about 6 months an out of work for 2 years. I enjoy my little tent in the wood’s. Next year I won’t to do Appalachian trail if anyone has camping or hiking gear they don’t won’t , please Email@ Thanks to all

  87. Cody

    You’re all crazy as hell. I want to go “off the grid” because I like the woods and I hate people. I don’t care about doomsday. Doomsday? Everyone coming for what I have gets shot at, or blown up, I just don’t like them anyway, now there’s no laws. I just want to get away from all of it. I don’t care about a civilization I don’t live in collapsing.

  88. Queen Pea

    Mary Mary Mary! is this ur 1st novel? you’ll be needing to hone ur research skills asap if you want that to go to publishing in a timely manner. i’d suggest u watch Doomsday Preppers on the Natgeo channel to begin ur search on ” why – what – when – how – etc etc… . i am already consulting with another author on her 1st novel, i still have to prod her to do her research also. there are many tv shows – novels and websites for u to search out to see WHAT IS GOING ON. a writer doesn’t ask others to give her the plot, character development, or other info thats needed to write a book – it might as well be my book if i did that. seek out a class or some form of education at ur local community college or bookstore. good luck in ur endeaver. QP

  89. Mary

    Forgive typos please — I have horrible arthritis in my hands and today is a bad day — but I need info for my novel. I am working on a novel based in Terlingua. I can’t give away the plot, but I am researching a few things. First, one of the characters will be real off-gridder prepper type. That character will have a motorcycle built for Terlingua terrain in the say Solitario region of Terlingua Ranch. What would you create for that character? It is set present day. I am looking for something made just for them male/female. Something that would take the needs of that type of desert type of area — what they would carry on it for emergencies, etc. I’d like an American motorcycle renovated to do the job.

    She will also be a prepper survivalist type. what would she live in, a yurt, shack, etc? What would she own — what would be important.

    Another character will be living more comfortably in a totally renovated Spartan trailer next door with gardens, rock wall around the place — cool wooden doors to enter. She is a newbie. I can’t tell you much but she has money to renovate but a broken heart. How would you renovate if you were a newbie and was determined to stay?

    Town stuff — what could the newbie buy as a new wardrobe — hers sucks. what should she get that is practical in addition to clothing? Has a retro car to pull trailer but not good for desert — what is the best retro vehicle she could buy that will be great for the roads and trails. (PS I have 20 acres in Terlingua — moving in a few years). Love it.

    Please think about it and let me in on a few ideas and why. I know tires are important as they get flat a lot. This person is poor/frugal — so it would have to be good on gas. They live in a hut or some sort of self sufficient dwelling place — not sure yet on that.

    Help is appreciated and I love putting real people in novels so if you want a plug I can give it to you.

    Mary C. Charest



    I have 20 acres now, and was wondering if any of you have found a place to go, for you in the Big Bend / Terlingua TX area

    I am also looking to get another 20+ ac location, to raise catfish to offer the residents on the ranch, and even open a restaurant with the fresh catfish and other fish from the aquatics farming endeavor i wish to set up

    could use a good hand or two, at the setting up a new adventure in fish farming

    Let me know what’s up



    (432) 244-9120 # out at the ranch area

    the skype is


    see you soon on skype I hope

  91. ALRod53

    Dallas, I’m not sure about the whole state but where we are no building codes as of yet. As a matter of fact no commercial zoning either. email me if you want more info.

  92. Kelli

    Preparing to enter the lifestyle of self sufficiency is a great undertaking. We know from experience. From our business to our dependence on the grocery store, pharmacy, and oil – the about face is difficult, at best. We approached it piecemeal. First and foremost was debt – get rid of ALL of it. Make the hard decisions about food, heating (no cooling!), and hard work for everyday things we took for granted. We’re still trapped in our business but it is for sale along with our house. Everything else is done – finally! Our property was the first thing we found.

    Fortunately or unfortunately, it is on your list. Friends buying adjacent to our property are paying double what we paid seven years ago. Could be market could be increased demand. We’re seeing far more people now, than we did when we found our slice of heaven… anyway, like-minded people are ALWAYS WELCOME!

    During our shift to self sufficiency I wrote a story. “Jingling Our Change” it depicts ‘change and hope’ and what its doing to our beloved country and its people. So far, people have enjoyed it.

  93. Mack K

    @Dallas There is also a town in WV, forget where, that is in a wireless-free zone (because of a nearby observatory) so if you’re among those who are sensitive to EMFs, or opposed to the SmartGrid & SmartMeters, that is a great place.

  94. Mack K

    A lot of those places are in tornado alley. Wouldn’t you be at risk of losing many of your preps (above ground) before the SHTF?

  95. Dallas

    Hey just a quick question. In your original post said you moved to Pennsboro, WV is it true there are no building regulations there or in WV as a whole? possibly wanting to relocate to a place with no building codes so I can build my own outdoor cabin and take a shot at sustainable living.

  96. doomas

    and to who do we owe all this money we can not pay back… they might someday try to foreclose on the debt. would not surprise me the way the rest of the government is run.

  97. Rick

    Well folks here is my opinion on all this . We all know that the government is going to swoop down and take whatever it needs to feed and make comfortable the rich b__tards that are supposedly running this country. So they will find us and our stash. But we can’t just lay down and roll over. If you have something you believe in then by all means go for it. I will. I won’t be able to save my whole family and that’s the worst reality because most of them just don’t want to accept the fact that things will change for the worse. Will there be any real, safe places, probably not, unless you can live under water. Its human nature to try and survive so each will do his or best to do just that. I say the best of luck to each and every one of you. THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO PREPARE. I believe our biggest enemy and threat will come from other countries that want to finally take us over while we are wounded and unable to defend ourselves.

  98. Green

    The Hawaiian rainforest has a year-round growing season. No need to irrigate. Water catchment tanks stay full. Enough sun for solar. Farmers markets every day. Wild pigs are free food for some hunters. Free internet access. In general, the legislators listen to you. In general, the police are peaceful and reasonable. There are some good judges in the court. The international airport is nearby. Shipping from the nearby Hilo port could bring funds in. Buy-in for one community is only $400/mo. for the first year, $25,000 for a membership in the LLC that owns 89 acres, of which each member gets 2 private acres and 55 acres are set aside for community activities.

  99. Julie

    I am planning on moving to the Big Island of Hawaii with my best friend to live off the grid. We have found some land for $6000 for a .17 acre. I would think that this climate would be even more ideal than the ones listed. There is plenty of rain for water collection, lots of sun for solar panels, wind for wind turbine and a plethora of food options both meat and fruits/vegetables not to mention the perfect climate. I am surprised that not one tropical location was even considered.

  100. kay

    Love the comments.
    Do your research on the ‘net, there is lots of info out there.
    Read the comments for the articles you find. There is so much handy advice, tips and suggestions that you can use in comments from others. You don’t have to write any, just lurk, copy/paste ideas, and save info that most interests you.
    Living off grid, even part time, “breaks you in” to the possibility of what you need in case the grid goes down and you’re in the dark.
    And have fun while you do your research! Pick different topics to learn something, check out youtube videos. Read history that dates back 100 years or so.
    I’m where I want to be, on the family homestead, suburbia over the hill, five prisons within 15 miles and major metropolises within a 20 minute drive; in several directions.
    But the neighbors do look out for one another.
    If you don’t know your neighbors, volunteer at the local food/clothing bank, church, or give a neighborhood picnic and get to know them. My next door neighbor has held a big picnic for over 15 years. He knows the neighbors, and some of them come from miles away.
    In any case, it is always good to make sure there is food in the larder, in the coop and hutch; to know how to can, ferment, smoke, and dehydrate food, that you raise, grow or pick (wildcraft) from nature. It comes in handy if you lose your job, your children come home unexpectedly, or you get injured in some way and the healing takes longer than you thought. Keep a $$ stash, learn a few new skills, update your first aid, and get some comfortable shoes.

  101. Heatblizzard

    I forgot to mention. One interesting note is the bible says after the 10th kingdom rises an eleventh one will rise from the 10th which it is believed that the USA is the 10th kingdom of the 10 horns.

    I don’t think the USA will completely collapse when the poo hits the fan but I do believe we will have another nation rise from it that will bleed over like a cancer and that kingdom is the one to worry about.

  102. Heatblizzard

    If anybody does bother to reply then respond as if I am a total retard in looking for property.

    We kinda live on the outskirts of town but we are afraid that when the shit hits the fan we are too close to Salem that their problems would creep over here during a military lock down.

  103. Heatblizzard

    Hi Me and Dad live in Silverton Oregon and due to medical issues we cannot save money very much but we want just 1 acre property. 1/2 acre would be best as we want an off the grid dome house but not an entire farm.

    The problem in the state of Oregon Dad has stumbled upon is it does not allow for that kind of property. You either have to have an entire farm or the lots are to be zoned for houses.

    It’s all part of the zoning laws. It’s more complicated then that but I am a simple minded person so it’s the best way I can describe the issues we are having.

    Is there any other states that don’t have zoned laned that allows for small parcels?

  104. Avi

    This is a great list but, as some people have mentioned, the people who will be your neighbors in some of your top five really make them unobtainable. I’d hate to have a gun nut, apocalypse whacko as my neighbor. Only a matter of time until you accidentally wander too close to his sniper nest and get an extra hole in your head.

  105. joem789

    Consider how many people were killed by tornados in West Liberty last year. My take is this. Whenever someone tries to compile a list of places to live, then live somewhere else. Why? Because for one thing by advertising, you are effectively ruining the places you mention. People. Pick a spot and don’t tell others where you live unless its family and friends. Get a PO Box.

  106. woods and water

    I’d like to add…we’ve lived in AZ, OR, WA, SD, CO, WY…we found our way here because of the lakes (ample fish), clean water (upstream from most everyone), cheap land (paid 12 grand for our land, taxes are low), fuel wood of a wide variety…no poisonous snakes or spiders…and fairly open minded towns. Water is of utmost importance. The west is on fire now and it seems to get worse each year, tornadoes cross the mid section of the country and now ‘super storms’ on the east and south coasts…

    I guess the next thing will be an ice age.

    Cheery, aren’t I?

  107. woods and water

    I’ve been ‘homesteading’ since I returned from Vietnam…in 1984 we built an earth sheltered home from native materials on 50 acres in the north woods. Powered by a small pv panel bought from the back of Mother Earth News in 82. We have more panels now, a 12 volt fridge and 2 12 volt freezers, all LED lighting…grow and/or gather 70 percent of our food most years, sometimes more, sometimes less. No debt, heat with wood…remember that as you age it doesn’t get easier…you need community. We are making our stand here, for now…everything works well, but our community of friends and family are flung about the area…most are 3 to 5 miles away. I’d rather we were closer to people now…actually, a few acres in a small village of like minded people would be enough…just a word to the wise.

  108. Nikala

    You cant do it alone ..we all have an idea of whats to come we all agree that we have to get ready for what ever it is ..let hope that you are one of the few that make it past whats to come how are you gonna make ??? not by buying land some where you dont know any one .. the best place to be is where you know ppl have frend and family that can help you .. find a group of ppl that fit you and work with them make a plan .. communal living is the best chance you have to make it start work with a group of ppl you like and you fit in with… hers my email if you need some info and need a starting point.. Im Ex Army ,chef. and have lived of the grid have build earth homes and now how to live of the land…learn ho to make ethanol ..
    nikalatribe@gmail dot com

  109. Denise

    If you haven’t seen or read “The Secret” now might be a good time. If the law of attraction is true…you may want to reconsider your position.

  110. Desert Dood

    Hello All,
    I’m thinking about things a little differently from what has already been expressed here. I think I might have a different perspective about things. I’m not thinking about great calamities and teotwawki so much as I am thinking about the fact that in 12 to 15 years I will be of age to retire on Social Security (if it is still there, and if it doesn’t get extremely cut down to almost nothing) I have to start thinking about how I will live with or without Social Security, because, after about 62 to 67 years of age, I know myself enough to know that after a lifetime of “wage slavery” I don’t want to work for anyone else after I reach those ages. I also know that I really don’t give a shit about money (that’s obvious, been poor my whole life haha). So how do I imagine life? What is it that I want. Well, as it turns out, I just want what my grandparents & great grandparents had. A (almost) free place to lay down my head, protected from the elements & basic food. Basically Chickens, Bandaids & possibly Bullets (Beans, Bandaids & Bullets) and whatever the fuck happens, happens. Oh and by the way, Our family prayer in 1930s Rural Arkansas was: “Is everyone here? Let’s Eat!” So I’m not exactly the religious type. :)

  111. doomas

    How would deal with the long cold season? I think many think its to cold to grow enough food and gather enough wood to keep warm.

  112. John

    Think farther ahead than just the initial few weeks and months after it all goes to hell. think about what kind of world you will live in and what your place will be in it.

    I can just Imagine all the Computer network engineers, rich city lawyers, shopping mall managers, ETC that sealed themselves in an expensive bunker (or something similar) for six months, 200 miles from any community, and emerging back into the real world after there canned spam and freeze dried potato’s run out. Suddenly realizing that they live in the middle of nowhere, with unsuitable seasons or land for crops and livestock, or even the skills to grow and raise such things.

    Good thing they spent 1500$ on that fancy AR15 from Gucci, Now all they have to do is put the barrel in there mouths and reach down to pull that trigger. Don’t forget to switch from safe to semi and watch your lane.

    lets face it, the Path to something resembling recovery is going to be long, painful and potentially very bloody if things go the way some people think they will.

    Heres one potential and I think more likely scenario.

    There is only ONE federal government. But there are Fifty state governments. Look up “State” in the dictionary.

    We live in a UNION of 50 STATES (miniature countries) each with a central government to oversee there own affairs. If the poo hits that spinning thing, and the federal government collapses, It will fall to the states to govern themselves Using whatever resources they have within there own borders.

    And some individual states have the means to defend there borders as well. Its called the national guard. The West Virginia national guard answers to the governor of West Virginia.

    Some states within the union are better prepared and more capable of self sufficiency than others. Some are just down right screwed.

    Some things to consider before moving are,

    (1.) does your state have the resources to sustain itself without federal government aid & oversight? Things like indigenous food and energy production, ETC.

    (2) Does your state have the means to defend what it has from outside intrusion? Like a strong national guard for example.

    (3) are the states next to your state severely lacking in one of the above? Because if you live in a resource rich state without allot of guns and people who know how to use them, next to a state with next to no resources and access to allot of guns and people, prepare to be forcefully inducted into a new union.

    What Im talking about is another potential form of civil war here.

    This scenario has occurred time and time again in human history. Large countries, when they collapse tend to become several smaller countries. Not Zombie infested road warrior apocalyptic wastelands.

    most recently, The Old soviet union used to be ONE country. now that space is occupied by many smaller countries.

    And in Antiquity, the roman empire used to be a single nation, and after it fell it became many smaller ones. They call it “Europe” now.

    It is more likely that in the event of the collapse of the federal government, the country we now call the united states will simply devolve, after a potentially large amount of bloodshed and human suffering, into an unknown number of smaller separate individual countries.

    Pick a potential winner, and move there.
    And when you get there, Be prepared to live a life based more on the basics. You don’t have to run a huge farm. A small farm, in a state that is likely to weather the storm better than others is your future. Grow food and raise livestock to help support your family and trade with your local community. You wont be able to run to wall mart anymore for milk and eggs. raise and grow your own. and be prepared to have extra to trade for things you don’t have.

    Have trade skill sets that other people don’t have. Can you mend machinery? We live in a mechanized age, and mechanization wont disappear completely from our lives.

    Can you sew mend and make clothing? Blankets?
    you probably would not be surprised how many people cant.

    Do you have any medical skills? A skilled Medical professional Is not likely to go hungry in such a world.

    Do you have a butt kicking degree from some place like fort benning Georgia? Because that should be useful, assuming your still in any kind of shape.

    As for me personally, my plan for Armageddon Is simple. I have no family. I have no money and I have no land. I have nothing but a busted spine, No post apocalipticly marketable skills, And a Veterans Disability check to support me as it is. So My backup plan for the end of civilization is quite simple.

    Its an Antique M1911A1 .45 and a single bullet. I will simply rotate my selector switch from safe to semi, and watch my lane.

  113. Sheri

    I’m surprised Alaska was not on that list of top great places to live. Lots of land for cheap there.

  114. Elise

    I grew up on a small farm in Western Washington and have lived in the city for the last 20 something years. Both ways of living have their hardships, but, I would rather deal with the hardships of living on my own land out in the middle of nowhere, than living in the city especially when stuff hits the fan :)

  115. doomas

    bmichael, there is water to be had everywhere. just how much do you need and fro what use. lots of people here with grand ideas..ask question and you will get advice to mullover. My self,,just got back from the sand box…spent 10mo, here..seen a lot and learned a lot. the common person here wants the same as we do. a safe place for friends and family. they do live more together but certainly not in a commune set up. and again ask.

  116. bmichael

    I for one found this article helpful. My concern would be locating contant source of fresh water inland. Anyone feel free to contact me and chat. I am newbie and interested in learning more.

  117. Alrod53

    boogy man, Rude is being lied to from the start of someone joining your community, Skills, ages,finances,supplies. Easy to criticise when you havent had the experience yourself. The whole deal of having people come join our community has really left us with a sour taste for taking anybody in. Society has changed from doers to takers..

  118. carolyn

    Living off grid does not necessarily mean that you have to be a prepper. A lot of people just want to get away from their utility company. You can walk outside any day and get hit by a car or be in the line of fire from someone who is having a bad day, or get Lime disease from a bug. So why worry about something that may or may not happen? Focus on living, as any day can be your last.

  119. doomas

    I find the same thought by all who are thinking about some sort of long term set up with unknown out siders…Most are just slackers. The free riders. And found a rather large group who thinks this is a return to the hippy ”free love”life style. I see more to be gotten from small, family groups where everyone knows the ground rules and there is more than servile to judge by. It will take a large back ground of knowledge to make this work..and even more work. One thing most have not come to under stand yet,,off grid does not mean hermit.

  120. boogy man

    Ppl are rude and aggressive on this diatribe.
    Typical human tendencies, when discussing ANYTHING that requires compassion, togetherness, understanding, and a logical, calm thought process…good luck to all. :(

  121. Alrod53

    Well, my experience has been wanna be off gridders come broke and lazy. And only want to do jobs that they can sit down and do, sleep till ten everyday.
    saustain themselves off of what you have or expect you to take care of them cause they dont want real jobs.
    The fact of the matter is just because you want to live off grid doesn’t mean that you are not going to need money or a job. there are just thing that a person needs to have money for like taxes,gas for the pickup, insurance. Who ever thinks that they are going to go live off the grid and sustain themselves long term without having a job or some serious cash saved to do so might as well forget it. And to anyone that is entertaining the idea of having people come to live off grid with them be careful of what you wish for, because people will tell you what you want to hear. when they arrive it is always a different story

  122. doomas

    Risk,,made some good points..You will have to check them out to see if any of the groups fill your needs..I have never lived in one but have delt with some folk who have. The best for them was the extra hands for the seasonal work.. The worst was the slackers, getting a free ride

  123. RisK

    In the beginning stages of simplifying my life so, of course, am researching on-line. Read every post on this site. All the theories make for interesting reading but I don’t feel the need to explain MY reasons for researching an OTG lifestyle. I feel that I must begin my journey within a community – learning from the experiences of others. I don’t have the financial resources to buy land, solar systems, etc. What I DO have is the willingness to learn & work hard. Search engines seem to come up with the same list of OTG communities. Would appreciate any input from people with personal experience from these communities .. pro & con. Or suggestions for the most informative sites to visit. Many of the sites I’ve been to just have lots of ‘links’ to other sites for the purpose of sales. Some of these posts are very discouraging; just because I wasn’t raised on a farm doesn’t mean that I can’t learn to be self-sufficient.

  124. doomas

    Well looks like this post has died. Is everyone settled in ? No more questions about anything? Iv been to the other side of the world. Seeing some dry country living. Their worry’s are the same as ours. Just different ways to overcome them. Buryed stock piles of water. And maps with star settings to find their way. The basic food supplies with a large knowledge of sour dough bread making. Very large supply of rice,corn,and wheat. All sealed in containers with nitrogen. Basic medical supplies. Small amount of carpenter tools but lots of sewing, leather tanning, rug weaving and spinning tools and supplies. Cheese making is a big thing. So if we are all set.. tell us how its going.

  125. Toni

    Pikeville, Tn and West Liberty, KY are nice places. Too bad someone had to list them. I am in S.E. Kentucky and land is fairly cheap in the surrounding area and far away enough from the cities for a little peace of mind. As for trying to warn people for prepping. Alot do not want to hear it so in the end they will not survive. I pray for them and that they do not suffer for long.

  126. firstmatediver

    How about sharing my catamaran? It’s not the cheapest solution but I’ll have to sell her if I can’t find a partner.

  127. maddman500

    You overlooked Snowflake, AZ and the White Mountains area of this big state. Lots of land for sale still; bought our acreage at $300 an acre. Prices vary from 199 to 10,000 an acre. Temperate seasons, good water table, and lots of friendly Gun owners :) Important details for surviving and maintaining survivability.

  128. Rob

    LOL, maybe some of you should consider enlisting into the US Military and get a nice run in S.E.R.E. school. Seriously, reading Backwoods magazine usually produces a nice group of half assed idiots who think they know how to survive in a situation comparable to what we in the US will soon face thanks to the idiot in the WH. Survival is not based on some of the crazy theories I have read here such as community blah, blah, blah………. Survival is based on above all things the will to live, 100% psychological. All your growing, planting , making your own compost etc… means nothing if you have no will to live and no survival skills/instincts. What military training does that no book can is it puts you in real situations and allows your very own physical body to improvise, adapt and overcome situation you would otherwise give up on because of the general thinking process this society has “evolved” into. I look at myself, raised in what many would call the “ghetto”, inner city where Latin Kings, Nietas, La Familia etc… ruled the streets and the people for the most part and yet I made it through the hardest training the US Marine Corps had to offer in a school with over 70% drop out rate beating out BUDs in the US Navy. At 38yo, married with 2 little boys, it will take my own motivation and encouragement as well as leadership by example to keep my family going in the case of complete economic shutdown and collapse of the social structure in America that has already begun thanks to the wonderful leadership of the moron who took charge in 2009 and continues “His” dream at being the first Tyrant of the Untied States. Remember folks, if they can train a Marine to operate in a STA Plt, Army Delta Force operator, US Navy SEAL, Air Force Para Resque, if they can train those of us how to survive by dropping us off in the middle of the woods with nothing more than a K-Bar knife, boots and a set of BDU’s and no food, no water purification tablets/systems, no fire starting materials, no high calorie bars etc.. for 30 days, establishing your own way to survive is 2nd nature to you. Alwasy remeber 2 things, #1, if you are creating a supply of food, ammo etc… then others will be looking at you as a fast way of obtaining those same things they will desire. Once a human being is faced with “get it or die” trust me, your not going to defend yourself from a group of 20 thugs who are dead set on killing you for your stock of trail mix…. I don’t care how much ammo you have or if you shot expert at the local fair and won the big gold bear. #2, true form communism does in fact work but only in small groups. Even in survival situations, human greed, pride and lust for power/control becomes the greatest enemy we as human beings face, just look at our current government and you’ll understand why the president is being called a liberal nutcase who is to far left by people in his own party who also say he is nuts because he refuses to listen to anyone……….That’s not me or political opinion, this is just human nature exposed outside of the BS media who sells you the lies, agenda and what they want you to believe.

  129. Aby

    hi every one, nice information, nice thoghts,do not forget someting very important, God never forgot you if you never forgot him.
    personaly, my husvand and i,reserch for 10
    years how to survive here like all of you we was
    thinking,loading our house w/food water and guns, but if imaging, all of us all stress out teaching our girls, boys to shoot who ever break the doors,what kine of life is this,we living shoot or their going to shoot us, because if the goverment want to find you they will and soon, so we keeping researching and we found this man on you tube, very smart,He said if we know this is going to be a war wy we wating here you do not have to be livingw/afraid to this that o the other things, just leave the country there is a lots of nice beuty places when the summer never ends, so we hit south america, oh god you are imazing, nice people nice wheather your money is doble, your peace is out of the world,your helth 100% organic natural no msg or high corn syrup you know what i mean bye bills, the only bill tha we have is one cellphone for keep business going my girls runing around teaching inglish
    to their friends and we inviting them to
    lern spanish God it is great if you ask for it he will show you the right way, no more thinking living under the ground, no more storeges the food, no more waisting time and money on guns
    just go further of this goverment, or you be one of them with your chip on your hand wayting for to go at those fima camps straight to be kill.
    the only thing about move out it is lerning the spanish wich it is easier than inglish wash your clothes with your hand and cook with wood stove after that even the food test the best, God blessyou all, and helpyou to find the right pleace to make your own heaven til He come for us.

  130. SoCo Gal

    Oh yeah, I forgot to add that a state that is 2nd amendment supportive/friendly should be added to my list

  131. SoCo Gal

    BASICS in picking an “ideal” location

    1. Raw land, remotely located with year round water source (creek, river, artesian well, pond, etc) with good soil, trees, mild climate, low taxes and at least zoning of Rural Residential so it allows you to farm the land and keep animals.
    2. Closest civilization should be in an area of less than 500 people.
    3. Climate should be condusive to solar and wind power (you can google the average days of sun and average wind mph in your area of interest)

    I won’t go into the whole mechanics of living 100% off grid or prepping for WTSHTF.

    This is just an overview of picking a location.

  132. Amy

    All I can say to the neigh sayers is this….It won’t be a deed the preppers is waving in your face if you plan to step on their land and threaten to steal everything they have worked for. That much I can absolutely predict. The truth is someone who tries to isolate themselves and hunker down will only survive so long. working together as a community will have better chances of pulling through the hardship. However as we have seen time and time again too many shift into the “every man for himself” mindset, unfortunately–Hurricane Katrina was the absolute best example of everything that can go wrong. One simple test you can do is to just shut off your electricity and nix the cellphone. You would be surprised at how comfy and cozy we have gotten today that many would be absolutely crippled by just these two acts. I even know some that would be devastated for just losing heir cell phone access. The point it, many out there laugh, criticize and make fun of preppers and then are the same people to be stuck in a traffic jam for hours during an evacuation of a city ( I mean world wide nit just the US). Personally, the city is the last place I want to be simply because when a disasters happens it turns into nothing more than a giant trap.

  133. Spiritwomyn

    Many of us who see thenwriting on the wall and have in fact worked hard to wake up others, are not as prepared as we would like to be because we do not have the funds to get what we need not to purchase property. But preppers are islands unto themselves and do not work together. Why does evil flourish in the world,? How did they get as far as they have? They work together. A house divided can not stand. So while you provide for your family, you stand alone and thus are more easily mowed down. Equally you think in narrow terms and forget crucial things. Maybe we will have no power, but our knowledge and expertise will not suddenly dry up. We also have other things and ways to prepare but dare not share online. In some ways old school is best. The world is full of stuff, yet we hoard it and choose not to share for fear someone will have it and we won’t. It was the people refusal to speak up and do something every time a plan was implemented. SO what makes you think we will do right later
    ? If you are not there for each other now, you won’t be there when trouble really hits.

  134. newlife

    Is there any more land near to where you are that is cheap? I was thinking of an acre or two. Close to the stream you also use? I am a little older than you and female, but I don’t intend to let that stop me. Totally agree with everything you have said. I have a sister who I would like to join me. I was thinking about starting with a camper. And maybe go to solar also. I have seen sites where people have put woodstoves in their campers and they have worked fine, but I do not know if there would be enough wood in the area to use. Thanks

  135. Shari Kalous

    WOW! Talk about some RUDE individuals! Ignorance will not be bliss if you cannot live off the land! If you have no clue how to grow your own food, preserve your own food, know what plants are safe to eat (unless they are contaminated), how to build a shelter of natural materials and so much more, your going to die! Most of the people who live city lives, have no clue about raising livestock, growing gardens for survival etc and I feel sorry for these people! When there is no electricity, no heat, no airconditioning, no phones, no cell phones, computers or TV’s. People who hide thier heads in the sand and deny this nations security is compromissed by our own government and it is exactly that, is what will cause the FALL of this nation! I would rather be prepared, be defended by my 2 nd ammendment rights and know that when all hell breaks loose, I will survive because I know to! I was raised a Kansas country girl and I know how to live off the land in her natural state. No modern facilities, just me and mother nature! Good luck is all I can say to those who think our government is looking out for us! You are the fools!

  136. dmarie23

    @ Bonnie Nichols, google the Denali Park SalmonBake. We are hiring right now for our seasonal businesses. It might be a great way for you to check AK out before moving up permanently.

  137. bonnie nichols

    have many skills…..2 people…..would love to go to a place like this….been gathering info for a while….just want a place to work…

  138. dmarie23

    Look at Alaska for a great place to live off the grid. No property or sales tax in most of the state, no state income tax. Friendly people and beautiful vistas. Also you get paid to live here. Once a year we all get a check from pfd fund. It’s wonderful up here!!

  139. Cina

    Everyone has a place in mind I would if you can deal with the cold winters Wyoming is a great place to be. We prep for our life here and find the tax, laws, and people make is a great place! Bright Blessings

  140. Sheryl

    You people are not thinking in enough detail. There will be no source, other than self, for anything. Things like bullets, canning lids, cloth and shoes, seeds, medicines will not be available. Its the little, day to day things that do first time county people in. Here are a few more things to think about when looking for a location:

    Wood for Heat. You will need enough wood to have a renewable source and you won’t have gasoline for power tools. I have already lived with providing my own wood to burn. Let me tell you that cutting down a big tree, without gasoline, is a two man job not to be taken lightly and you will need many to last an entire winter. Then there’s cutting that same thickness up into logs, then splitting it into burning size. If you live in an area with a winter, like New England, Montana or Canada you will spend every waking moment – all year long – just providing enough firewood, all cut by hand, to live. You will need several large hand saws, axes and tools for this and a means to sharpen/repair them.

    Ammo. Bows and arrows. Start learning to use a bow and make your own arrows. Learn to make your own bows too – unless you have the skills and equipment to make your own bullets with wood power, then you will need your own ingredients for gun powder and metal to cast bullets…

    Water: If you don’t have your own source for water, you may not have water. In that kind of survival situation, rivers and streams can be dammed by the authorities to provide water for their installations and also there will probably a lot of dumping and pollution resulting from whatever caused the problem in the first place. You will need your own well and filtering apparatus, without buying paper or filters. Plants are a good way to naturally filter and clean water for drinking.

    Paper (tp?) Learn to make your own.

    Clothing: Learn to tan hides and make your own shoes/boots/clothing from them. Raise a hidden sheep or two and learn to spin and knit your own wool. Even dog hair can be used for this. You will need grazing and grass/grain fields to cut for any sheep/goats/cows you plan to keep, so keep it small.

    Food. Must have a forest with ungulates to hunt, if not raising all your own meat. You will need a large veggie garden maintained by hand (almost a full time job in growing season) and keep/dry/store your own seeds. Need a way to store food long term like a cold cellar. Chickens would be good too, if you can keep them hidden and safe from predators.

    Meds. You will need room to grow/dry/store all your own herbs and learn how to use them. Also need to learn major first aid skills.

    Acquire all needed seeds now! They won’t be available at the time.

    Learn to do without the little things manufactured or acquired elsewhere. Learn to build and make your own dishes and spoons/furniture, etc from wood you cut and plane yourself, by hand of course (big job). So many little things are taken for granted. Where will you get lids for your canning jars? Reusable ones are available online now but how many times can you reuse them? (Get them now!) You won’t be able to make plastic, so get used to doing without it now.

    Think about these things when looking for a survival base to live. Wood, water and food are the most important items to look for. If you live in a hot, desert area, you can probably do without much wood for fuel but where will you hunt for meat or grow hay/grain for raising your own?

    Is there a “perfect” place that is warm all year long with water, woods/prey and good ground for growing food? If ownership matters, is there cheap land there?

    If you find it, please let me know!

  141. Adder

    I’m going to get back to the original post here… that list is ludicrous as a ‘places to survive’ list. If you’re just looking for a nice small-town environment but still have the luxuries of 21st century life, then that list nails it (with a few exceptions). But if you’re looking to find a place to SURVIVE if/when the SHTF and TEOTWAWKI comes out of nowhere, then you most definitely DO NOT want to be in any of those locations.

    There is only two regions in the lower 48 (Alaska or the northwestern areas of Canada are give-mes) that are suitable for survival in the event of any of the following – economic collapse, monster hurricanes/typhoons, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, active volcanoes, drought, nuclear attack, foreign terrorists/invasion, or our own government’s actions resulting in marshal law &/or civil/revolutionary war. Those two regions are the south-western deserts from Arizona/New Mexico extending up into Nevada and Utah (but far enough away from the cities and military bases which would be sure-fire targets), or, the best choice, the northern Rockies of Idaho and Montana.

    To make it simple, you don’t want to be within 100 miles of any major city, within 50 miles of any large metropolis or military base, within 25 miles of any medium-sized town, or within 10 miles of any small town or rural community.

    It’s fine if you want to have a small, loose community of like-minded individuals/families scattered around you, but initially, if you want to survive, get out on your own and learn to really survive. If you can be self-sufficient, you’ll survive anything. Once you’ve gotten to that point, THEN make your friends and develop your network. It’s that simple folks.

  142. doomas

    The one and only one I’v seen is not a explosive system. It was a tand with a way to store and compress when needeed. Yes ,I guess it could explode, but I don’t see it. I agree with the not even need it though. I’m going to rely on solar and wind. when the sun stops shineing, gas won’t help. Solar water heater is good and doable.

  143. Zathris

    I have looked into something along those lines both methane and hydrogen; however, I have a lot of more pressing tasks. And the thought of creating an explosive gas generating system makes me wary. Once the cabin is finished my next project will be getting the orchard and garden going. Also I am hoping to get some passive solar heating for both the home and hot water. I would rather not need gas than generate it. Bio-Diesel is another long range possibility, but right now I have other things more pressing.

  144. ALROD

    Hey Doomas, I’ve been working on building wood fired ovens and have come up with a great design, Although the prototype is very heavy and big 1/2″ and 3/4″ welded steel I also have been working on plans to build from recycled 55 gallon drums to make them portable. the first designs proved to turn out some great pizzas, roasted beets and yams. I’m going to put the build up on youtube on a couple vids.
    I’ll keep all interested you to date on the progress.. Happy Camping

  145. doomas

    Bob, try looking this up.
    A homesite power unit : Methane generator / [by] Les Auerbach

  146. doomas

    Have you ever looked into anti-aer-o-biotic diegesten?? not sure of the spelling.

  147. Bob

    Why I went off grid.
    Back in 2008 when Lehman Brothers collapsed and “Started” the world wide financial crisis, I decided I had seen enough of the handwriting on the wall. I spent the next three and a half years saving as much cash as I could and began reading up on what I felt where going to be the important subjects to understand to get by in the coming years. As I see it there is just no possible way that there is going to be a recovery and return to what most people would call a normal life. Let me explain why I say this. Our current world wide economic system REQUIRES growth. Money is created by being loaned into existence. This requires more money to be created to pay the debt associated into the creation of previous money creation. As long as there is growth to offset the interest everything works fine. However, we are now at a point where growth capable of sustaining the current debt load can’t be achieved. In order to pay the debts there are two options (neither will work). Cut spending to pay off the debts, or spend more money to try and support growth. If you cut spending then the economy shrinks and growth slows and even contracts (recession). If you continue borrowing then the debt load increases until it collapses under it’s own ponderous weight. What is going to happen (and has already started) is a constant slide down to a lower standard of living for most people in the industrialized world. We see it happening in Europe and right here in the US in the form of higher unemployment, lower real wages, higher taxes/fees/fines/etc, and higher prices especially in food and energy costs.

    So what does this mean to us? Well at best the standard of living will continue to drop till a balance is reached. At worse social disorder and chaos. At the age of 52 it was clear to me that even if the economy managed to survive at a lower standard of living that anything resembling a retirement was becoming more and more unlikely. So I took my $33,000 savings and bought a small three acre piece of land (with a stream) out in the country and built a 500sq/ft cabin. It is total solar (1440watts of panels) and uses rainwater harvesting for my water supply with the stream as a backup and for watering the garden (coming this spring). I will also plant a dozen fruit trees and some berry patches. My goal here was to create a comfortable home that will have water and electricity for life (sure wish I could plant a propane tree). Food producing but far from being a farm, yet able to sustain me if times get really bad. At worse it’s a comfortable home with power and water that even a minimum wage job could easily sustain. And if things fell apart completely could sustain me and a few others without too much trouble. I don’t have an arsenal of weapons, but I am armed. And I do have a cache of food somewhere on the property I hope never to need. I am glad I choose Southern Missouri as there are a lot of like minded people here. The climate is moderate, plenty of water and great soil. I wish I had done this years ago (I wouldn’t be so sore and tired). I do not consider this a downgrade of my life style, far from it, as I have all the comforts of home and can live comfortably on $500 a month. And can live at a much slower pace than I could as a cog in the great wheel of consumerism. That is why I went off grid. For a more peaceful lifestyle and the ability to ride out the hard times around the corner.

    Just my $0.06 (That’s $0.02, adjusted for inflation)

  148. doomas

    All the natural disasters can be delt with. You just need to be ready to live the life style necessessary to do this. The tough thing is to make a liveing all year long for your family while you wait for your natural disaster.

  149. brienne

    A thought to consider when choosing land … high rates for natural disasters. Are you in a hurricane region, flood plane, tornado alley, earthquakes, etc. We live in MI and although we do want to move to be in a less developed area we aren’t leaving the state. There are lots of natural resources, fresh water, hunting/fishing, however, the biggest downfall is the winter and worrying about blizzards. That being said, I’ll take blizzards over some of the other natural disasters out there.

  150. geeknik

    Folks in Southeastern Oklahoma don’t take too kindly to strangers, so I’d use caution if you’re thinking of visiting or even staying. ;)

  151. doomas

    Not much going on here lately… I had a e-mail talk with a guy who brought up some ideas to share.
    If any one has medical issues, get them delt with ASAP. The thought of a bad tooth now and never knowing when you will see a Dentist again, ain’t such a good thought. You will have to decide for your selves if you want fix or just suffer as you are. I’m going to fix this bad rotor cuff. Any work with the arm adds pain. And I can see alot of hand sawing in the future. Had not thought much before but now, I’ll get my self fix.

  152. doomas

    Bring us up to speed on how things are working out. Did you work on a root cellar?

  153. doomas

    Time for everyone to check in on how they are doing !!!

  154. easternbliss

    Anyone in Florida, North Carolina or Georgia living off the grid, send me info at

  155. Dove

    A lot of good information here. Was reading this thread and got to Peter’s excellent comment… Peter, call me, lol ;-) But seriously, if you need a wife/girlfriend, or just an awesome addition (petite, mature but adorable female, ha, writer, visual artist, potently health-oriented, spiritual but not fanatic…) to your community or “tribe,” please contact me :-D


  156. Dee

    Does anyone know about living off grid in Maine?

  157. Jimmy


    Do you know of any good places to go off grid in Alaska?

  158. doomas

    I see their is a plastic laying machine for sale on one of my other sites i visit. interested e-mail me.

  159. doomas

    Great !! A note on the fire wood. I to cut up down trees and storm damage. One thing I did was cut down and leave lay ahead of time to dry where they lay. Cut up five for this yeasr,,cut down five for the next. The best thing was to put a add in the paper,,”I trim trees for free” got lots of free wood. Also a visit from a tree trimmer who wanted to know why we were doing it for free. He now keeps my wood box full and I don’t trim trees! He don’t pay to dump them.–win–win.
    Many ways to make electricty. I try to get as manny as possible set up as you have. One don’t work the other will.. Good for you. On your garden,, I have had good luck with putting down colored plastic. keeps the weeds down and the ground moist. cheep on e-bay. love it. keep us posted

  160. Alrod53

    Yes Doomas it has been a busy spring and summer, I tried what I thought was my best at the permaculture garden it was pretty much a waste of time… very small yealds. and couldn’t hardly find anything in all of the weeds.
    No the insects didn’t eat much of my plants, except the potatoes and they got chowed on buy bugs and deer. Next year it’s back to weeded and nice rows.
    This coming winter we are going to start growing in the greenhouse. A small aquiculture setup, We are going to start with a couple of dozen gold fish and see how well they do and in spring get some fingerling rainbow trout as a more renewable food source for our selves. So far this year we have built another cabin with fourty foot boardwalk and deck on three sides, all from oak pallets and shipping crates. So far about five hundred invested with new forrest green tin roof. We also have the whole electrical system installed it is a genovator/windturbine/solar set up.
    basically when the wind blows it charges the battery, when we run the generator for power tools it also charges the battery. and when the sun shines it also charges the battery. When I say the battery, we have a six thousand a/h amp hour that we can,t seem to overcharge so no need for dumping off of extra power. So far for hot water for bathing and dishes we have been using an old discarded gas hot water tank that I got from the local scrap yard and ripped the bottom and burner assembly out of and perched it on some fire bricks plumbed it into the house and build a fire under it and it heats the water scalding hot and keeps for days in the summer and very hot by morning in winter. It uses a very small amount of wood to heat the water. We are always collecting firewood, it is a constant rotation of seasoned wood into new bunks closer to the cabin and new wood set back to dry. The big storm this past summer blew over some pretty big trees that will keep us in firewood for the next two years so no need to cut any down. We have almost thirty acres of woods and hardly notice the ones that fell. Also the pumpkin plant that I didn’t plant gave five nice pumpkins about the size of a soccer ball so we are going to fire roast two of them and eat em, and use the other three to make a ten gallon batch of pumpkin beer to offer friends for the holidays.

  161. Sue

    The TX listing may be cheap, but there isn’t a drop of water to be found. We joke that you’ll hit oil before you hit water out there. Not a good recommendation!

  162. doomas

    No body got anything to add? Well I have been working on things. Have supplies togerther to put up a small wind tower. Have a few solar panels as well. My last project was to build a generator that will produce electrisity by the road traffic passing over. Kind of a electronic speed bump. Patend pending now. Hope tosell a few and never have to run and hide. But getting ready for that as well.

  163. doomas

    Does any one have any Alternative energy plans in the works ?
    anything you have worked out on your own or a regular proven style?
    Let us know. Post something. lets share our thoughts and how to.

  164. how much is a carton of milk

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  165. ALROD53

    Very interesting to see how this posting has gone so far. Yes we have been living off of the grid for almost two years now.
    We have come to find that becoming self sufficent is easier said than done every day something new to figure out but we love it. To all who are thinking about making the move off the grid the time is now.. A decision is not a decision untill it is acted upon.. You will learn what true freedom is.

  166. AndyFreeSpirit

    Well, I don’t know anything. I admire off-the grid, simple living. I enjoyed reading the above commentary…most of you are all pretty bright people with great viewpoints. I believe bits and pieces of a lot of what’s already been written. I think we need not to own or consume anything. I laughingly think we are better off moving to live with real indigenous tribes in the Amazon or other parts of the world. Life is simpler, it would be easier just to move in and hope they will accept you and you can do something useful in the community. Shelter, food, love, laughter, what else do you need? I guess in N. America I’d live near a water source but high up to avoid floods or built up ash or something else lethal…like the magma from the earths crust….how about a place on the eastern side of the canadian rockies… an earth-friendly cave close to some plains and fresh water.

  167. AndyBigEagle

    Well, I don’t know anything. I admire off-the grid, simple living. I enjoyed reading the above commentary…most of you are all pretty bright people with great viewpoints. I believe bits and pieces of a lot of what’s already been written. I think we need not to own or consume anything. I laughingly think we are better off moving to live with real indigenous tribes in the Amazon or other parts of the world. Life is simpler, it would be easier just to move in and hope they will accept you and you can do something useful in the community. Shelter, food, love, laughter, what else do you need? I guess in N. America I’d live near a water source but high up to avoid floods or built up ash or something else lethal…like the magma from the earths crust….how about a place on the eastern side of the canadian rockies… an earth-friendly cave close to some plains and fresh water.

  168. doomas

    To All;
    Has anybody made any moves? We would all like to hear. Post how its going.

  169. E.M.

    I have lived with the Old Order Amish since “94. I grew up in Dallas so I experienced major culture shock in the beginning.
    THE one piece of advice I could give everyone is: Practice extreme contentment.
    Do not take your city mentality with you to the woods.
    If you are constantly concerned with how you will sustain your power need alternatively you will not learn survival.
    5 years after living non-electric I went and lived in the Carpathian Mountains villages of Romania.
    There I learned that I can survive with even less then what I thought I needed among the Amish.
    Believe me the issue of breaking DEPENDANCE on the system is important because what we imagine we can do and what we really can do are vastly different sometimes.
    I have seen well intended folks come and go here wanting to live off the grid….but after the honeymoon period was over they simply did not have the reason for living so austere…..the spiritual motivation was not there.
    Learn to make fire, learn to get wood, kindling.
    Learn to cook this way.
    Learn to forage locally and hone your eye to what can be used.
    Learn to go to sleep when it gets dark and rise at the first glow of the sunrise.
    We are so hungry to be in touch and to know everything from the weather forecast to what is happening across the world and in a real event we may simply be totally out of touch, and in the dark. THAT alone can drive us to compromises if we have not learned otherwise.
    Above all we must repent and trust God to lead, provide and protect us from evil using all the God-given brains and skills we can harnass.
    Has anyone read “Lost in the Taiga” by Vasile Peskov? It is about a family of Old Believers who lived undetected for over 40 years in the Siberian Taiga until they were discovered by a geologists reconosince plane. Very intriguing to say the least…There is one lone surviver still there now. Very much worth reading and full of information for the survivor.

  170. doomas

    Brian; That is a consideration, the only thing to deal with would be a cold winter and a short growing season. They say you get the most heat out of wood. First when you cut it down,then when you haul it in,then when you split it,then when you store it away, then when you go out to bring it to the stove, then when it is burning,then when you haulout the ashs. You get the picture, but if you don’t mind the work, you’ll get a lot of heat!! Keep us posted.

  171. Brian

    I would think a rural location in Michigan would be ideal near one of the fresh water lakes.. After all, water is the first priority.

  172. Karen

    Living in a remote area must combine mind sets of spirituality (not a boxed religion), connection with nature, finding balance and harmony with nature and yourself, love of life, and the absolute disgust with the way things are “evolving” in cities and the gov’t. I just cannot watch CNN or any news anymore, nor read papers. My reason is to find peace, calm, serenity, grow my veggies, enjoy the purity of the elements, quiet of the environment, smell the nature surrounding me, and know I have stopped being a major part of the machine that is destroying this Earth and the people on it. I have compassion for all human kind and animal. I feel this pain. I am 65, female, strong, healthy and want to live the rest of my years living the peace we all deserve. I have lots of family, grandkids, but they know me and I can alway visit them. I am looking towards a yurt or tipi. Lived in a tipi for 2 yrs in northern New Mexico mountains. Know plants to survive in all environments, herbs for medicines, and can make an aqueduct for water, as well as a rain barrel. But, that is me. I am researching an area with some rain at times, available water, mountains, seasonal changes, remote, but near some sort of a town ( maybe 20-25 mi), green, good soil, not too rocky, non toxic area, no earthquakes, no tornadoes, no tsunamis, no volcanoes, no flooding, no nuke plants, plenty of trees, and friendly people who are there for the very same reason. Not a commune, but who is in the area. So, lots to fulfill? Is this too Utopian? Unrealistic? Naahh, it’s there somewhere. Seems western Va, Tenn, and parts of WVa are suitable. Even parts of Maine. Harsh winters, though things are changing on our planet, weather is not the same. We are warming. Love Vermont, a very organic state, but pricey, unless you go way north. NH is just bad for taxes on seniors. Harsh winters, rocky, but things have evolved and the planet is changing, so not so harsh now. I thought of somewhere in Scotland, the isands, or north, near Skye. Been there, and my heart hasn’t come home yet.
    If you have a place to fulfill these needs, let me know. I am financially independent, do not need to work at a “job”. Renting or leasing to own the land is good or even a little huse or cabin is fine. Thanks and I wish all of you peace.

  173. Escapee

    One scenario that is not considered much is that things will keep going as they are for another decade or two and by then the autism rate will be 1 in 20 and all the other more subtle health horrors will have subdued the majority of the population without them every knowing what hit them. Just what are you going to do about chemtrails and electromagnetic pollution? You think your water filter and and some organic food is all you need to stay healthy? The government is okay with you eating organic foods because they know they’ve got you in the end by other means. If the ground is poisoned and your crops won’t grow properly that’s a major setback. Keep in mind not all of the world has chemtrails. They are mostly in the NATO countries and Russia. If you managed to stay healthy during this time and 98% of the rest of the population scattered around you didn’t you’re still destroyed as a nation.

    When the collapse does come it could be a large natural or economic disaster, or there will be martial law. In the case of the former, there will likely also me martial law. So many people didn’t consider martial law. Just what are you going to do on your piece of land with 50 starving neighbors who have been offered to turn you in (for the greater good of the country) for a large supply of food or money? Don’t think they won’t do it. So the place you or a community you put together choose will have to be quite remote. In the US places like this are just too expensive or are taken by some National Park. And that still does not solve the chemtrail problem.

    Currently the USA is largely being supplied financially by foreign nations. If martial law comes, that will likely continue. Don’t think that a breakdown in the country will cause people to stop paying taxes and then the government and martial law will collapse from lack of food and funds. All that stuff that comes from China can still come even during martial law. So martial law could continue on for a very long time. What are you going to do when your several year supply of food runs out? You can’t plant anything with people roaming around ready to report illegal gardens. If you think you can, plant a lot of illegal stuff and see how long it takes for someone to report it. In a martial law situation, it’ll be many times harder to have a garden than it is now to plant drugs and not get found out. Now remember that all the roads will be locked down. There’s a road every mile in much of the US and having 40,000 checkpoints to put a 10 lines across the whole country is entirely possible. You could get by on foot, but that’s a lot of distance to travel with no supplies. Most of the land cleared and used for farm land. There will be no place for you to hide. You can do it, but you’ll need to be prepared. And if you’re making a long trip, it will be very difficult to find food along the way.

    Having to buy land is a bad idea. If you can’t live on the land today without buying it then don’t assume it will be any easier to do so after the “collapse”. It may be easier, but don’t assume so. I would be much more comfortable being in a place where I could live without paying somebody for the land.

    Once America is destroyed and becomes like a desert as the Bible says, leaving, or wishing you had maybe 20 years ago is going to be a very common though for those who are still alive and not mentally disabled. The government seems to be going to a great deal of effort to try to steer the survivalist community away from the idea of leaving the country. Glowbug said the Bible says to leave. Rarely do you hear anyone say that. Do you see what I mean? There are a lot of people who spread fear about living elsewhere. Don’t let that get to you. You do have to make an effort to understand the culture and language. It’s easier for some than others. You also have to let go of the abundance that life in America brought to you. But after that, it’s mostly positive things.

    Canada is a good place to go if you want to stay fairly close. Up north there is wilderness and lots of fresh water. I know it’s cold, but if you had your supply of stored food and an in ground shelter you would be much better off up there where you could roam around freely with your gun knowing that there aren’t any unfriendly people within a few miles. Compare that to trying to do that in the US. Most of the land is cleared. People will be everywhere trying to rob you or turn you in. The road system which was once an advantage for transportation is now a disadvantage because of checkpoints and patrols everywhere. Remember why they sprayed agent orange? There’s probably a lot more to be said about this.

    I don’t think living on a boat is a bad idea. But I do think that a 50-60 ft boat is way too big unless you are wealthy. A 30 – 40 ft blue water boat is quite suitable and can cross any ocean carrying several people. The slip and haul out fees become very high with large boats. A boat that is longer is also wider and taller. It may be better to think in terms of displacement. If disaster suddenly came to the US you could be 60 nm off shore in 12 hours. But I still think continuing to live in the US is foolish.

    I want my post to be a kind of reality check. Just because a lot of people talk about being off the grid doesn’t mean it would really work out as they assume in a collapse & martial law situation.

  174. doomas

    Off grid is the term used to decribe liveing ”off the power grid”’ Not the hermit life style some think. There are off gridders who life off grid to save money, prove they can get along on there own generated power, or there is no power in the area they want to live.
    Many people who should be called ‘Dooms dayers’ talk of off grid alot and it is not the same.

  175. Suzy
    Toxic Texas…check it wonder cheap!

  176. Cappy

    A few years ago, a newspaper article told about a group of people who camped somewhere out in the wilds, probably Calif, moving to the NW when it got too hot. Talk about off the grid! Meals by campfire, all contributing in some way. It was their chosen way of life. They became a close-knit society. When one fell ill, one with a car took him to a hospital, some distance away. In trying to find out about them, I came across this forum. What do you mean by “off the grid?” Is it more than just putting up some solar panels for electricity and power? Some gardening? In this age, I don’t see how it’s possible or practical to shun society and all the conveniences since the caveman walked this earth.

    In looking for a simpler life. I recently moved to a beautiful city and an apt that is within blocks of many shops and restaurants, which, tho a small city, has a wonderful public transportation system so that I can sell my car. Bye bye car, gas and maintenance payments. I want to walk to places, not have to fire up the car each time. All this talk about self-reliance doesn’t make sense to me. How do you grow your own toothpaste? Years ago I used to can tomatoes, made my own clothes on my little old Singer. I found it was cheaper to buy clothes than to buy a pattern, the material and all the other supplies needed to finish a garment. It was a treadle machine; not electric.

    What do you do when someone gets seriously sick? Do you do a fireman’s carry to the nearest clinic, maybe 50 miles away? See? Some of these things don’t make sense in an effort to be self-sufficient or self-reliant.

    Some complained about nuclear power plants and the use of money. How did you buy the computer you are using to post here without money? Okay, close down those power plants, get out the old barbie and heat water for your morning coffee. I liked grilled everything, so I could do well without a range.

    At 75, I can’t worry about any impending doom. The preachers have been predicting the end of time since I was ten years old. For those who are worried about disasters, both natural and man-made, I say what will be, will be. My biggest worry now is if O’Dummy gets re-elected, obamacare goes forward, and I’ll be screwed. I won’t be able to afford Part B, which may climb to $240-250 by 2014, and for me, it will be double cuz I didn’t get it right away. US citizens will be forced to pay for it; non-citizens, and I think there are 20 million of them, will get free medical care. Where do I hand in my citizenship?

    One person from Nicaragua wrote about how wonderful that country is. Why have so many left it and are now living in the US, and as illegals? I pay for their living here, their medical care, their schools, their food stamps, child care. I can barely afford to pay for myself.

    There are pros and cons not only for the “ten best places” listed here, but for anywhere we might choose to live. There are some here who love Alaska; I love Florida. Someone here said the big island of Hawaii was reasonable. Define “reasonable.” If I could survive there on my social security and tiny pension, and I didn’t need a car to get around, it only takes me 30 minutes to pack and 30 minutes to get to the airport. To me, Hawaii and Heaven begin with the same letter for a reason. I’d really like to know if it is as affordable as you say. Thank you, and God bless you all.

  177. doomas

    There are adds and info posted on the left and right side bars of the site..At the top of this page. Did you look into any of them? Might be closer than you though !

  178. Chris

    Your all plain wet behind the ears when it comes to off grid living. This is the man who wrote the bible on it.
    Besides when the ZomPoc comes people like me are just going to pry your gear out of your zombie corpse hands. Well that part is fictional.
    However Dick Proenneke is the master hands down. His methods can be used no matter where you buy land. Once the collapse happens there will be no need to BUY anything be prepared to barter.

  179. akr

    Love all these posts. My man and I have been talking and thinking a lot about prepping. Currently in upstate NY, about 90 miles north of nyc. Know that we are definitely too close to the city, and thinking about where to go. WV soun
    ds nice, but worried it might be too close to DC.
    He is a hunter/ fisher/handyman. Im more survivalist/resourceful.
    Want to get off the grid, but know that there is safety and survival in numbers.
    Interested in meeting likeminded people willing to cooperate and work together to be successful.
    Anyone know anyone in NY or PA, surrounding areas that might be interested in merging resources and knowledge to obtain common goals?
    Really want to get started sooner rather than later, but know that we need help, guidance, and land.

  180. live now

    “Chris Squire { 07.03.12 at 1:38 pm }

    You only have one life: how much of it do you wish to spend out in the sticks waiting for the end-time that never comes, like an early Christian waiting for the Second Coming?”

    That’s all i needed to hear.

    Live, Laugh, Love

  181. doomas

    good points, I have argued this point with alot of people…and the broblem is that no one wants to give in to someone elses ideas..Then we get no head way tp solveing the problems..It makes sence that if we stay here and fix the problems would be better off in the long run. I talk to alot of people on e-mail how ask how do we get together on this? I wish I knew. untill the neysayers give in and try, here we are, looking out for our selves.good luck and keep in touch.

  182. MJ

    Many good points made. No argument there. The simple truth though is this. You have to start now. Make the decision and get off the main road. You need a water source, good soil, and a fairly hidden location. If you advertise where you’re going, chances are you will be found. Someone said the only way is up. If you meant “north,” you’re probably right. I’m no McGuyver, but I’ll say this: Wherever it is my loved ones and myself head off to,…there won’t be many that know we’re there. But if they find us,…well,…then we share everything we have. Give until you cannot give any more. What you do in life comes back to you “ten fold.” We reap what we sew. In the end all we have is each other. We better start seeing the light pretty soon and get over our petty differences or we’re all up the creek without a paddle! You’re all welcome at my campsite that’s all I can say. God Bless!

  183. jon

    I’m sure this comment will be disregarded as being naive, stupid, or foolishly optimistic but I mean it sincerely: if all the people commenting here, and elsewhere on off-grid and survival forums actually resigned themselves to suffering the same fate as the rest of the world, you, and I, would have a much greater motivation for preserving it. These forums are one of the very few meeting places for people who actually “get it”, who see the coming crisis predicated on resource deletion and pollution, war between overbearing nation states, and an economy that allows and encourages basic human rights like water and food to be privatized and used for profit (not to mention countless other problems like over population, disease, natural disaster etc). Rather than contributing to the solution, we simply say “fuck it, I’m out of here have fun fending for yourselves assholes.” That’s the exact mentality that placed us in this predicament in the first place, all the worlds ailments are the result of people changing from familial and community group structures based on mutual gain and respect, to exploitative systems where individuals try to get ahead, and that’s what each and every one of us is doing now. We need to get off our high horse, we don’t “deserve” to survive more than everyone else, we’re all guilty, everyone in these forums at one point worked a bullshit job that contributed to the problem, or voted for a candidate who contributed to the problem, or bought clothes from factories that burn oil and use child labor, and as such we are partially responsible for fixing things. At some point we all realized everything was fucked and started making changes to our lives accordingly. Weaning ourselves off store bought food, gas run transportation, and non renewable or sustainable energy. If we could simply could convince everyone else to do the same, educate people t the point that they have the same realization all of us had, we could avert, or at least minimize the impact of the coming crisis. If we spent as much energy teaching others how, and why they should, be building cobb houses and using solar, wind, or biofuels as we do making our own BOL’s, we could win a lot of people to side of rational and sustainable coexistence.

    Plus, even for the most avid hunters among us, the most ornery loners, the post-crisis world would suck. Even if I do everything right: I stock endless ammo, guns, and food, and locate and disguise my home in the boonies there is no way I can prevent the government from finding me with thermal imaging from above. There’s no way that I, even with all my buddies, can shoot through a mob of 10000 people storming from boston, chicago or seattle. And even the best placed BOl is subject to either nuclear fallout, human raids, or natural disaster (or unbelievably difficult living). Maybe we shouldn’t be so quick to resign ourselves to the fate of living like loners in the fucking freezing cold, especially when a mobb off angry idiots who didnt prepare, or a mobb of military trained and sourced people could just kill us anyway

  184. doomas

    Just had a e-mail exchange with a person who is interested in getting away like so many others…Their main question was what we will do for clothes when what we have wears out. One of my research items tells how to make cloths out of leather and skins..Leasrning to tan would be a good skill. To make boots and leggings take the hide off in one piece, called caseing. Cut the back leg off a ‘cow’ sized animal and turn inside out. Tan with the hair on. if you pull the leg skin on untill the ‘hock’ area not matches up with your heel you will have a legging with out a seam. For boots they carved a piece of wood for the sole and used pine tar and sap to stick it to the bottom . Then youy will only havd to tye the ‘toe’ closed. Making it long enough to go above your csalf and you can tye a raw hide strip around the hold up.

  185. doomas

    go back and reread some of the old posts..139—157 and some others ,to get a refresher on what going on. thanks…keep me posted.

  186. doomas

    I have spoken with alot of people who believe as you. Nothing wrong with that. You can get city maps that show all the under ground tunnels and water courses. You can fix things up real well for your self by studying whats around you and how to put it to the best use for you and your family. There are alot of places ”in town” that are not really city. you could seek out one of these and use it as a safe haven till things settle down. Or just fortify your home and stock up for the worst. Good luck and keep us posted.

  187. tony

    You forgot one place where the Buffalo don’t roam. Los Angeles. Not all of us can pick up and move to a remote location. The best location is right where you are. Make due with what you have and be grateful for what you have. Prepare for your environment. Know your area. Don’t dream of living in a Disney fantasy land. I have been to some of these remote areas, and if your culture doesn’t click. You are screwed. You might as well as enjoy being miserable in your choice. Then think about making a living. Do you really think you are going to be rolling in the dough, when there are very few jobs and low wages. They hire the locals over outsiders. Get real. Maybe a fun place to retire. If and when all of the doomsday believers have their predictions come true. Do you think a small community will embrace the people who grew up there over a transplant.
    The best place is on the space shuttle a few hundred miles up in space.

  188. doomas

    If you drive to town you can charge up a battery for lights. cheap and it will get you started..What shape is the insulation in…Start saveing cardboard boxes from town…nailed on the out side of the room you plan to live in ,it will be a good insulator as long as its dry. 5-6 layers overlaped well will stop the draft and keep you warm cheap.

  189. doomas

    Toby; Good for you,,your learning.. Now I would start digging a root cellar under the house..Easy axcess and a lot harder for people to steal from you… You can make a ”fake” cellar in the hill side…just to see if and when they start stealing from you. You might want to set up a small solar panel..would give you lights to work alittle at night. Keeping your self busy helps with the lonly nights…If you dig alittle each night and on rainny days you will get it done….just don’t tell anyone about. I think you can’t get enough fire wood ahead…try to store it under cover as well..if not you can sdtack it to shed a lot of water. good luck and keep us posted.

  190. Toby

    Thanks Doomas…I should not have refered to these people as hillbillies.. a couple have been really good to me….some here are scary, they drink and do drugs….and also, i am afraid they are going to sneak up here and steal from me…but, this still beats city living!..I couldn’t grow anything in these woods…so, i am buying real cheap and canning a lot of food in jars…no refrigeration…I got the old shack of a house from leaking…(no power)…I figure the inner room is all i will heat this winter…hooked up stove. i want to kill deer and jerk and salt it..been trapping little critters for meat (read how to do it)…having trouble with varmits up here on this ridge…killed 3 snakes so far copper heads, afraid to eat them though. Got kerosene lamps…love the sooty and black it make. I have come alive, and i live like an animal, but out of city…yeah. Miss some things like, women…but ones here are scary…get lonley and wigged out at night , but getting used to it. Get up with sun and go down with it…got to drive to town to get on internet…so..slow. Hot, humid and no ac, so i sit in creek down the ridge. finished outhouse..was using a bucket. Well, waiting for winter, and hunting…I’ve seen turkeys, and hoping to put up deer…they tell me canning them works. I am surprised i get by with little…got time to make things with wood, since that is what i got a lot of…been reading mother earth news and books on how to do things. Well, take care all, will report again when i can.

  191. Sid

    I think to beg advantage would be to remain somewhat mobile. I have a truck and camper, assuming gasoline will still be available or park it if not. And also a sailboat that I keep in the Northwest. It is the more self sustaining of the two. The wind is free and there are a lot of things to eat along the waterways. My big problem anywhere will be my health. I am diabetic is there any information of natural meds including insulin?

  192. doomas

    Good luck on your move to WVa. From what I kinow you could of picked lots of worse places. Try not to make the mistake that a lot a folks before you have made. Its not good to refer to the local folks as ”hillbillys” they call them selves that but do not like outsiders to do the same. Just be friendly and call them by their first names. Don’t advertize your intentions, just go about your business. Some will try to rob you blind,others will seem to pay no mind to what you are doing. But believe me, there are people watching! This is not knew, it happens everywhere. Mind your own business and stay low key untill you are settled in. By then you might blend in and no questions will be ask. Again good luck and keep us posted.

  193. 1stvillager

    This is a fairly good list, but, of course there are lots more places that are just as good. Making a list of ten is pretty limiting. A better way to approach the topic is to define the criteria and then narrow to specific regions, then smaller areas within those. For people who are serious about the topic, Joel Skousen’s book, Strategic Relocation is the Bible. In the latest edition, the only area East of the Mississippi that he recommends is Tennessee’s Cumberland Plateau. There are a number of reasons for that. You can read more on it here:

  194. Toby

    Hey….I am leaving the city….got a pick-up truck and a whole lot of things to live off grid. I bought a big woods in the eastern part of WVa….in the mountains. I am worried about the oil and gas rights now, reading this. I am hoping to dig in before winter. i have been hearing about the end of times, and the crazies who will be coming out. I have a shotgun, but never used one…I thought this would be the best place to survive, but not sure. Some of the hillbillys here are really cool, but I don’t know if i can trust them. For now i am just trying to get up enough wood.

  195. doomas

    I lived in West Virgina for a good while and don’t see the need for fear of the removel of natural gas. Most all the gas rights have been explored and there is no real need to cut large tracts of timber to get it out. A lot of well sites have aready been developed so not much new road work will need to be done. Just hope they keep up with needed repairs so we don’t end up with mud trails every where.
    The population might increase as workers come and find they like the country. Its a fact that not everybody hates gas and oil rigs and they won’t mind moveing in where the locals have thrown up there hands and left. We need to keep the state on them to do what the law says and not cut corneres.

  196. peter

    I believe that natural gas companies have purchased the rights to gas underground of a majority of the privately owed commercial and residential properties in West Virginia. Most people have sold there rights already or the previous owners have to the natural gas companies.

    How is that going to play out as we go further beyond peak oil? I would think the natural gas companies are going to be all over that state for there rights to the gas and tapping gas deposits all over peoples property, cutting timber and roads for acess once in they could push and push messing up more ecology and water. And coal companies will be going nuts with full support from the federal government. How is that going to effect the population of West Virginia?

  197. doomas

    I would start by getting incontact with dealers of the equipment needed to do the job. Hear there sales pitch. making note of the numbers.. After you hear all the talk, ask for refferences. See who has used them that is the closest to your same conditions. Soil type, moisture content, is a big factor. Sun exposure is a big factor. Work out all the =/- and see where it takes you. This is a large investment you don’t want to do wrong or twice. After you have all the facts they will show you,ask some more. Get down to 1-2 that fit your project the best. then you will have a gut feeling then as to who you can work with and trust. Please keep us all posted.

  198. Nick Rosen

    Mel asks a question: can anyone point me to the best advice for sizing solar & either geothermal or water-based geothermal? i think that’s the best option for low-energy HVAC. Mel, your best bet is to to and ask a question in the technical forum – A lot of the folks there have experience.

    also, I think many of the people commenting here could benefit from posting their details on where others may be inspired to join up with you.

  199. doomas

    Jed, That sounds like a good plan. I find alot of people are not likeing the idea of moveing to a new place and building alife from scratch. Not even knowing what to build to.
    I can see there fears. If I had not talked to so many people and looked into so mant different ideas, I would not like it a whole lot eather.

  200. mel

    i’m thinking of off-grid not out of fear of doomsday but out of wanting a simpler, better life. i’d rather concentrate on those aspects. currently looking for cheap land in GA or NC, where the climate is favorable for long growing season & comfort (i don’t mind 90 degrees, don’t like a long cold winter tho!) can anyone point me to the best advice for sizing solar & either geothermal or water-based geothermal? i think that’s the best option for low-energy HVAC.

  201. Jed Smith

    Too many variables, too many possibilities. The key is to be prepared over a range of possibilities: chaos, partial breakdown, depression, double-dip recession, slow slide into Third World Ish Americal.

  202. doomas

    Very good point.

  203. Chris Squire

    One thing to bear in mind is that It may Never happen: I have on my shelf 2 books from a previous Doomist era, the 70s: Roberto Vacca’s The Coming Dark Age and L S Stavrianos’ The Promise of The Coming Dark Age.

    You only have one life: how much of it do you wish to spend out in the sticks waiting for the end-time that never comes, like an early Christian waiting for the Second Coming?

  204. doomas

    Maui,,,what do you call cheep land?

  205. Living Maui

    Living in Hawaii should have been on your list. The big island of Hawaii has inexpensive land, fruits and vegetables abound, and lots of fish to feed you for a year. Of course there is the occasional wild boar. As many of your readers have said, ask, ask, ask. Read and educate. Happy Living.

  206. doomas

    Ask questions and read and learn. Find out what will work where you live. Check out your choises and go look at things others have done. Learn from what they have done. Figure witch you can do by your self. Have control of your project so you under stand what is going on. as how it was built and how it works. Develope a over all plan so things work together,not against each other. But ask,ask,ask,some one will tell you what you want to know. Get alot of ideas before you start. weed out the ones that don’t look or sound or do able. Find someone who has done what you would like to do and talk to them about it. Try to get a insight of how and why they did what they did. But again,ask,ask,ask, you can’t ask to much. Lots of money is not the end answer.It takes good plans to carry out a idea to the end. Remember there are alot of posts on the internet,they are not all right or the truth. BEWISE—BEWARE !!!!

  207. Toby

    Hello folks. I am living in the city, and want to live off-grid. What should i buy…Money is no object, but I don’t want to do it wrong. Any advice?

  208. Viskew

    Personally i’m located in WI and have some property further north. Very northern wisconsin is good, and clear of radiation, moreso northern Minnesota. Short growing season, and stock some firewood.

  209. provacative thinker

    Just one additional comment: Forget Western California, Oregon, and Western Washington. There are many, many Volcanos along the Coast, and they are a serious threat. In addition, those areas are heavily populated; thus likely more prone to a breakdown in Civility.

    Eastern Washingon and theCascade Mts. have some appeal, as does the Palouse area and northern Idaho. Look for places that are not large, and where there appears to be a sense of Community.

  210. provacative thinker

    Lot’s of good comments here. Have room for a few more?

    First, if you stay in the U.S., east of the Missouri River; you will likely not survive, unless you are with a seasoned group of Preppers and Survivalists, that are prepared for every eventually. One, or even a group with little or no skills would be able to hold out long.

    It’s a matter in part, to get out of highly populated areas. When the SHTF, the Zombie Herds will be on the move, after they clean out the Cities. (It might be possible for a small, prepared group to survive in the City; but I personally think that one would have to hide, and be constantly moving about to predetermined locations. Those locations would need some hidden supplies; and, not be readily visible to the rank and file Zombie.”)

    The biggest danger of making a stand in a City is Disease, Fresh Water, and Fecies everywhere. Dogs and Cats will be roaming everywhere. Some of those Dogs WILL find you! If you could survive up to a month; your chances for survival might improve some, as the Zombie and Animal Herd will be thinned considerably. Yet, Disease and Rotting Bodies, aren’t something I’d care to deal with day after day; along with the RATS.

    Canada is a good option, in an emergency. You would need money to survive the Elements. Having Friends in Canada would be a big, big, plus. Just how many people Canada might let in, is anyone’s guess. Better have your Passport and an Enhanced Drivers License ready. Problem is, would Canadian Officials allow you to enter the Country with Guns, Foods, Animals, and Meds. There is a danger in that – – you know.

    Less populated Western States have some appeal; and, at an elevation of 5 – 10 Thousand Feet. But, even then, one must prepare! The Weather can be a challenge and and a Killer for one not prepared.

    Hungary Zombies with little or no Food and Gasoline, will find it more difficult climbing the mountains. Also, if they don’t know the geography of the area, could easily get lost, and make easy sniper targets. Cold and Windy Weather will be the game-changer for many who want to look for food, shelter, and security, in the mountains, IF, they are not prepared.

    Yet, there are no guarantees. Knowning some of the People living in the Mountains in Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, and Montana; one is more likely to get assistance from these folks than from people who live in large subdivisions, and never talk to eachother. In fact, when their Kids need food, they WILL come for your stuff.

    People in my age group; say, 60, or 65, and older, may want to consider a plan to leave the Country. When you consider the Cost, Strength, and the ability to Team Up with Preppers who would be willing to take you in; could be severe limitations. If you can’t contribute much; it sometimes is unfair to seek their assistance. Yet, Money Talks! If you have lots of money; and, can help purchase the supplies they need to beef up security and survival, you might be welcomed in the group. Bartering will be important, and the Survivalists know what needs to be stockpiled for Trade and Survival. Ammo, Gasoline, Meds, Workhorse Vehicles might be high on their list.

    I like two or three places in South America. Because when the SHTF here in America, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will impact the entire World. Look for places where the cost of living is reasonably low, and, where the weather is not extreme. Just as important, I would think one would want to find a Country that is both Politically and Economically Stable – – if that is even possible today.

    Senior Doktor


  211. Karen

    The name of this blog is “Ten best places to survive in Americia”. It is in my opinion that the best place for an individual to survive is where they are. I personally live in the country. I have never considered big city living healthy, especially in times of crisis. My reasonings for this is that I know the patterns (ie weather, air flow, water locations, flora & fauna) for this area. That alone gives me one step up as to having to learn an all new area. My biggest concern is prepping for an EMP blast. All electronics will be shot and this includes 99% of all vehicles (atv’s and motorcycles included). Most people are not going to walk and carry firearms over 20 miles to steal what you have, just ask a local hunter if you dont believe me. The only ones you really have to worry about are your neighbors. As for stockpiling seeds, heirloom is the only way to go. GMO seeds will not reproduce (corporate seeds). As for me, I believe studying the ancient cultures is the only way to survive the upcoming crisis.
    Peace and happiness to you all.

  212. Kim

    A few people on here, glowbug, awshoot and doomas, to name some, that have given some really great info! Keep up the good work please, alot of people out there are depending on your wealth of knowledge on the subject!

  213. Vitus

    @ bob, Mountain home? I live here as well, it is true this is a nice place to fish and hunt. but not so much for what this list is for. there is two hydro dams here.with all the flooding they are starting to fall apart and they are trying to fix them. but when they had to open the flood gates on them it was crazy here. lots of folks here lost everything!!! it was crazy to watch homes,cars,sheds,barns and all just being ripped apart trying to go under some of the bridges here maybe up north of these damns, but here we sit in the middle of two of them. the rivers can be low and you can walk across them in the morning, but 4 hours later it just might be up 4 to 8 feet. who knows, its all in the power they sell.and thats just a normal day on the white river. after seeing what happened to all the homes when they opened the flood gates,i can only guess how much damage would be done if just one of these dams failed.

  214. starla

    Where in British Columbia do you sugest Rob Chipman? Are you living off grid? Looking for a place to go for my family of 4 I am Writing from Surrey.

  215. ALROD53

    Alan. Yes Debt= Slavery. Get out of debt get out of being a slave.

  216. robert- when seconds count.


    Your goal is admirable, and lofty.

    You first have to figure out what your mission is, primarily if it is survival when SHTF, or just living off grid for Eco and like purposes.

    Community doesn’t by default equal survival sorry to say. Historically speaking, it tends to go the other way. Unless of course, your at the top of the food chain. Tyranny exists at all levels, but tends to run rampant at the smaller community levels when a larger oversight is no longer present. Think lynch mob mentality.

    Anyways if your thinking about nuclear war, there is no place in America totally safe. both coasts will get chewed up, powerplants a primary target, fallout will cover just about everywhere in lethal dose, eventually tapering off to acceptable levels. there is a narrow window right between Arizona and just barely into Utah. where fall out is to do the least damage. for reasons I wont expand much on here, most of Utah is toast though, for there nuclear repositories, networks, it is a primary major military hub for the west coast, pretty much anywhere there is a high priority government target, missile silos etc. the Dakotas and the like are screwed.

    if its things like the super-quakes the USGS is predicting, the activation of the super volcanoes like the Yellowstone caldera (the mouth is 45 mi wide! in fact, the whole parks sits inside!) everything in 400 miles is toast, and Utah is directly in the lava plain, its a natural funnel. Or the one in Texas, or the long valley/mammoth lakes California caldera that’s 200 mi wide! and utah is directly in its lava plain, as well as the fall out!!! Utah really isn’t a safe place to be. victim to two super volcanoes, geologically unsound with the possibility of forming its own super volcano, and NBC attacks. ( i love teasing all my friends that live in Utah, they get so mad. though, a few moved out, thought it safer.

    then there’s the new mexico caldera-175 mi wide. as a comparison, mt st. helens was only 2 square miles! just like nuclear fallout, the the volcanic fallout will be horrendous east of all of them. pretty much anything east of the Mississippi is in serious trouble. And it is believed that super volcanoes are also responsible for some of the near total extinctions life on earth, earthquakes, throwing the earth in a volcanic winter. think Pompeii, where the cities were fumigated in poisonous gases, buried under 20+ feet of volcanic ash and pumice, fried, cemented and suffocated to death anyone that might have survived the 300 to 1500 degree heat-blast, or the super-sonic shockwaves. there was no escape. In fact, a nuclear blast and a volcano are very much alike, except one is also highly radioactive, and the other is a shower of burning death, and rivers and oceans of fire, but everything else is pretty much the same. supersonic blast, fallout, heatwave, more supersonic shock-waves, death.

    Oh yea, when California drops off into the ocean, Utah gets it again! super-massive tsunami, and is turned into a giant lake. however, Arizona will finally have that ocean front property!

    Its also predicted that in the event of a nuclear attack on US soil, it will trigger the super-quakes, causing massive compression of the core, setting off a chain reaction and causing the super volcano’s to all go off. its kinda awesome if you think about it, everything that could go wrong, all happening in a chain reaction with global consequences.

    If any humans were to survive all this, it would likely be few and far between, and its unknown how many years before crops could be grown again.

    But all that can be done is plan for the worst, but hope for the best. and do the best we can with this planet, its all we got,. its unlikely man will colonize mars, and it is impossible to ever travel outside our solar system to the next closest solar system.

  217. robert- when seconds count.

    @mervo;You’re logic is flawed- “self sustaining communities that support each other will be the winners”

    Im sorry sir, but your statement does not universally hold true.

    Target is more like it.

    History proves that the community will only stand in minor situations, hurricane Katrina proves that, where those self sustaining communities were ripped apart and victimized by roving gangs. misinformation is as bad as no information at all.

    Anyways, title of the article is the ten best places to survive.

    That is a misstatement, it should read ten best places to buy some cheap property.

    None of the locations meet any over all conditions for survival. none address NBC, natural or man made disaster etc…

    However, they may be good places for some general off grid living, where people are looking for small communities to live in, but for the concept of survival, they are far from ideal.

  218. AlanK


    I’m actually not arguing that anyone should just take land, or just take anything for that matter. I actually think a monetary-based economy is inherently exploitative; a way of continued slavery, be it 2-3 times removed.

    I think my point is still relevant. As Jay C correctly noted, money itself has absolutely no intrinsic practical value whatsoever; you can’t eat it, you build anything with it (i.e. shelter), you can’t make clothing with it, etc. Money only has conceptual value as a social construct in our current economic system.

    If and when civilization collapses the conceptual value of money will evaporate. Hence, you won’t own any land. You might be able to use firearms to keep the land you reside on, but without the social institutions that enforce the concept of ownership, owning anything is meaningless.

    Like many other, I’m convinced the collapse will be primarily ecological in nature (no pun intended). Eventually, the interconnected global ecosystem will become critically over-exploited, and a catastrophe in one facet will create a chain reaction the implodes the whole thing. It could be a microbe that decimates food crops like wheat or corn, or livestock, it could be a critical dearth of potable water, it could be a global pandemic… Who knows?

    But if it occurs in our lifetime (for better or worse), it will be critical to survive using natural resources in the most simple, effective ways possible. You’d need to know which local plants are safe to eat, how best to fish and/or hunt local animals, how to obtain water, how to build shelter using locally available materials, etc.

    I’m not arguing that owning land isn’t useful, but it’s more important to know how to survive using local resources regardless of where you live. Being prepared and having your land prepared for the collapse seems paramount to me.

  219. UnhookedLiving

    Wow, that was an interesting couple of hours reading all this.

    Re: “And a lot of our United States still allows you to build what we want to live in without any regulations. Where are some of those places? Any in NM?” Google the No Building Codes Book by Terry Herb. I have not read it, but it’s on my wish list. If you check it out, please let us know how it is. Btw, I see the opposite: rules and regulations everywhere that make the lifestyle difficult.

    Baja asked about the bare essentials. Here is a list of essentials I put together based on personal experience living low budget, low impact, off grid in a rural area:

    I just published an e-book, The Truth About Simple Unhooked Living. I think it will help people 1) in the beginning stages of preparedness, 2) those who want to take practical action to chip away at our culture’s problems, 3) those who want to get to the land but don’t have much money.

    You know the Bible says the people with wicked hearts will be found no matter how deep the cave is that they’re hiding in. So the best “survival tactic” is to be pure in heart.

  220. Will

    Why buy land? Spend your money on guns, reloading systems, seeds, tents, water systems ect….. group together as Americans use to. Find some place to go together!! The war we will be fighting will be against the MUSLIMS. Wake up stop fighting each other and band together.

  221. Bob

    Mountain home? Thayer? I live close to both of those places. They shouldn’t be on the list. Sorry. Great fishing and camping but as an avid scavenger I wouldn’t go as far as to put them on this list. I’m just sharing an opinion.

  222. Amy

    I grew up on a 30 acre farm and after marrying ended up living on the east coast in packed Cities like Trenton and Jersey City. My husband is a Disabled Combat veteran on a fixed VA income and after being laid off a year ago, I have been unable to find work—and that is with hitting the streets every day believe it or not. For any who might ask why states along the East coast are not viable, I can tell you I have personally seen the difference and there is no way you can get a decent slice of land over here without looking at $250k + and that would be for less than 2 acres without a livable home. I have 4 children, so I need a roof even if temporary while we build something better. We are leaving New Jersey as soon as school finishes this summer and following the old addage “Go West”. In comparison, my brother-in-law is buying a home in Trenton for $200k and it doesn’t even have a yard–front or back. 30 years of mortgage for a sidewalk and gravel to me is rediculous. The other thing I wanted to bring up was this. For the naysayers who believe staying close to main cities is the best idea, Imagine this. Every single disaster movie where the authorities tell people not to panic and they do is accurate. It is human nature. In the event that there is a society collapse, for example, there will be looting—that already happens with a tiny rolling blackout–panic, and price gouging at gas station. We had a blackout in mid July here a few years ago and a small shop owner was cited and fined because he was charging $7 for a bag of ice that he normally sold for $1.75. All you have to do is look globally at the exchange rate and see the Dollar is rapidly losing it’s value. I am not saying it is the end of the world, but as the economy steadily drops, there will be the price gouging, so why not get as self-sufficient as possable. In the event some bigger emergency happens—take Katrina for example–the coastline and deep in the city is the last place I want to be. You have to make sure you have a way to quickly get out of the danger area and personally I think it is unwise to wait until it is happening. To say that owning land will be irrelevant is not entirely accurate, either. Think about…good luck to the one who steps onto some land deep in the woods of Kentucky and declares he/she is claiming it as their own. People WILL exercise their 2nd amendment right and buy whatever necessary to protect their property. It happens all the time even without some emergency. I have kids and in an emergency like that, you can bet I will have a firearm or two in order to protect my family if nothing else–don’t forget the deeper the wilderness the more likely the bobcats and bears as well, so it’s not just humans I protect my family and property from.

  223. Dan

    This property is very remote yet easy to access…
    $19,900 1.36 Acres on Kaiser Road (desert center, ca)
    Power on Road
    Underground Stream 200 feet away
    Map of Compliance is complete
    Check out this affordable property (5 miles north of Desert Center, California
    Go to and MLS# 21451662

  224. Jay C

    Since there are wayy too many comments to read…
    I’ll throw in my two cents [I’ll make it as short and simple as possible].

    Should the ‘end of the world’ happen someday, on that day, man-kind will choose one of two options:
    Option A) Learn to tolerate & cooperate with each other.
    Option B) Continue on their path to self-destruction.
    Which one do you suppose we will choose?

    Not to mention, what about all the things you will have to worry about?
    Humans, Predators, Weather, Food, Water, Nuclear Fall-Out, Etc.
    Simply put: You will have to worry about essentially everything.

    Think you got it all figured out? Well think again.
    I don’t care how ‘prepped’ you think you are. Fact is that someone will find you. You won’t know if they’re hostile or not. You will just be in your little bunker, hoping that they don’t break in. Even if you were to not be found, your supply will run out sooner or later. Do you think that you will be able to survive off the land surrounding you? What about your descendant(s)?

    imho, the only option we as humans have is prevention. It’s not even that difficult.
    The real reason why we continue on our path to self-destruction is because of you & me.

    The following is a list of what [ I ] believe we need to do, along with the reason:
    1) Stop using machines that require fuel such as gasoline.
    [ Not only will this run out one day, it also pollutes our planet to chyt ]
    2) Stop destroying nature to build your fancy buildings and houses.
    [ Eventually, you will run out of space. When that happens, you will probably have no eco system left ]
    3) Stop leaving so much responsibility in the hands of few.
    [ Sure it’s nice to have a government, but we as humans will eventually begin take advantage of power when we receive it, it is our nature ]
    4) Stop using ‘money’.
    [ Why do we accept paper money as currency? It doesn’t have any ‘real’ value. Truth is, paper money is an easy way for a few to be on top ]
    5) Learn to tolerate & cooperate with each other.
    [ Why would you do the opposite? ]
    6) Stop creating unnatural medicines and foods.
    [ Lots of medicines don’t cure. They trade something you don’t like for something else that you won’t like. & for foods, why would you mutate something that was perfectly fine? ]

    Thank you for reading my wall of text, any thought will be appreciated.

    Off topic: Why is it that you work day to day in order to provide food & shelter for yourself ( and perhaps your family )? You can do all of these things, without a job or paper currency.
    If we chose not to rape our land, there would be plenty of food & water around for everyone. As for shelter, you could just as easily build a simple one yourself.

    Here’s why: We are born LAZY. Why else do you think only a few take action.
    We are a failure & unless we change our ways, we will go extinct.

  225. Alrod53

    Nancy I agree, hence the reason for having a rain water collection system.1600 gallon. We have a seven stage filtering system with UV sterilizer to finish the process. Where are you located in WV? Maybe we can help. We opted not to dig a well for the same reasons the water that comes from the city is laced with fluoride that is poison also..

  226. Nancy

    I would think long and hard about getting a place in WV, OH, PA, NY, MD, and NJ. We are in WV, and are involved in anti-fracking (Marcellus Shale Gas Drilling) and many, many people are losing their water sources as drilling is taking over these states and poisoning the water. Horizontal Fracturing uses 4 to 8 MILLION gallons of water per well (and some pads have up to 6 wells) most which stays deep underground (un-retrievable) and that which comes back up is poison and un-recyclable. Many states involved in drilling give almost unlimited water withdrawl permits to gas corporations. Surface water (streams, lakes, rivers) are much lower and getting worse, because of this. If we had known drilling was going to take over this area, we NEVER would have moved to WV.

  227. Rainmaker

    If Yellowstone blows there will be no safe place in the continental U.S. but there are many cave systems with underground rivers in the Ohio valley. When I was 6 I witnessed Mt. St. Hellens erupt, the ash cloud reached the great plain states. Imagine where the ash cloud from Yellowstone will go and its magnitude. The jet stream flows west to east and will cause years of sun blockage. Caves would be ideal with hunting parties if any animals to eat survive. Leaving the country for some equator area countries would be ideal.

  228. ALROD53

    AlanK, So what you are saying is that if we should have a collapse of society a person can just go anywhere and take what ever land they want? Because there will be no laws or law enforcement. Ha…
    “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good” George Washington

  229. AlanK

    I agree with a few others that, if your goal is to live in a manner truly independent from civilization, then owning land is irrelevant. When and if society collapses, the concept of owning land will be meaningless because there will be no one to enforce laws, including laws of land ownership.

    Instead, it would be better to focus on areas where there is significant undeveloped land and resources to subsist off of (foraging plants, fishing, and hunting). To me it seems like the Big Island of HI would be a good place: It’s far enough in the middle of nowhere that the hordes would have difficulty getting there if industrial civilization collapses.

  230. Xaver

    Mtn. Home is NOT an off the grid place to live. Especially if you’re a person of color. The town and its people are more than mildy racist. Plus, it’s less than an hour from North Little Rock, how could being 50 miles from the states highest level of govn’t and a tourist area due to Norfolk in the summer possibly be “off-the-grid”?

  231. Baja

    I love west Texas, including the area around Sierra Blanca, but it’s not a place I’d want to try living OTG. I wish the city folk from Chicago success. I hope I’m wrong. For the rest of us, please can I have a list of what you consider to be OTG essentials.

  232. barkforumdotcom

    There is no one place that is utopia or a guarantee that you will not be affected by collapse. If you have to think about standing and fighting hoards of people trying to raid your home for food – that is not a place for you. Living around the very rich who don’t have a clue, the poor who are ready to riot, militias, or the overly religious is not where you want to be. Find an area that is free thinking, community minded, agricultural and not anti personal protection. We need to learn to live and buy locally, live and work in community and respect others views and was of life – as long as it is not detrimental to the community. The following places come to mind: Western Montana, Western Oregon (away from Portland), Southwest Iowa, Northern New Mexico, Western Washington away from Seattle and the coast. Find a small farming community and fit in. Dump the “lefty liberal” or “Christian Right Wing” attitude, these areas won’t tolerate that. They don’t like Bush any more than OB. Left wingers need to stay in their enclaves in the North East and Kalifornia (PRC). The religious right would be better accepted in Tennessee or Utah. Embrace and work with your neighbors and work as a community to oust those who seek to undermine independence, freedom and commit violent acts. Some of the best neighbors are the young “hippie” kids. They are not the ultra left wingers like the hippies of yesteryear (read rich liberal Boomers). Most of them get it, and understand freedom. Free thinking people need to band together and eschew these extreme views choosing a path of peace and community, but ready to defend themselves from those who want to undermine their right to live and exist. The Libertarians tried to take over New Hampshire based on a perception that “Live Free or Die” is actually practiced there. In fact they chose a bedroom community of Massachusetts, where some of the snobbiest people in the US live. They would have been better of in Montana! Poster Karmazfool gets it! He is right on the money and his last post SAYS IT ALL! Learn a skill, find a community and work for the better of all. If you want to live in a compound move to Idaho….

  233. karmazfool

    Looky here, living off grid is something you plan. It requires a community to support a community, Dig? If you’re fleeing for your life from flesh eating zombies your off grid experience will be different than surviving an economic collapse. How many hungry people are left will determine your experience far more than any prepping you do. Consider the guy in the 50’s who built the best bomb shelter in town only to have the first bomb fall right on it. You can’t prep immunity to biologicals and you can’t hide from radiation. If you can’t carry it on your back it won’t do you any good. You can’t go off grid without leaving everything you are trying to preserve in degeneration. Everything needs to be replaced. Eventually everything you squirreled away will be gone even if you are the only one using it and a lot faster than you think. Stop this fantasy about surviving off grid, its no more productive than believing you can do so during a 50 year nuclear winter. Making life saner and safer makes far more sense than withdrawing. Don’t go run and hide and expect me to fight your revolution for you. I’m not here to preserve society while you ride it out with pork and beans and squirrels. Pitch in, get us off oil, feed the existing children before you make anymore.
    Forget about buying land with the state’s blessing because there will be no state to defend your right to it and there aren’t enough dogs or bullets to keep the hoards out if they want in. Heck, you could get firebombed from a crop duster. When something is broken a mature person fixes it or replaces it, not run away with a slingshot and a peanut butter sandwich! Sheesh! Some people’s kids . Seriously, once it’s really broken, assuming you are one of the lucky 2% who actually survive the catastrophic event you’ll be happy for any help even if it means you have to feed them.

  234. doomas

    Alrod53;;;;Yes I’m aware of the difference between off grid and prepper. Everything you say is true. Lotes to do, could use many willing hands. I think most people are afraid to get in the job poolm again. They are thinking they can weather the storm at home better. I’m thinking that they don’t realize there friendly friend from next door will be the first at your door to rob you for food. Hunger does strange things to people. You will need to be preppared for this as well as makeing it in the future. I don’t see the world falling appart as some do. But things will get a lot harder. Money will be useless unless its gold-silver. Good survivel skills would serve you better than a bank account. Its just going to be real tough for those not prepared and hard on those who are.

  235. ALROD53

    I have just read a posting on this site where a fellow OTGr almost died this winter because of illness and not able to heat their home, Another good reason for a group unless you have a family group to help. We have been trying to get a group of couples together for over two years now and interviewed many.
    Most are intimidated by the amount of work that it takes. Almost like becoming a dairy farmer it is a 24/7 job.

  236. ALROD53

    Doomas, Prepping and living off of the grid are not one in the same. A family can prep. by stocking foods and thing that they think that will need in an emergency situation. Living off of the grid is a lifestyle of sustaining your self and family or group. That is why, (my thought any way) it is better to do it as a group rather than alone to split up the work load that it takes to live off of the grid. I know were doing it my wife and I. One of us had to quit our job this winter just to keep the house warm and pipes thawed. But it’s one year now OTG and still fine tuning stuff and the never ending construction. I will soon be posting pictures of the 76 dollar 9×12 A frame cabin that we have been working on, It’s made from pallets. And pretty cool lil place.

  237. ALROD53

    I tend to disagree. In the citys is where your going to have your looting masses in a SHTF situation. That is why are out in the country. We can see someone coming a half mile away. But yes, some are going to have to deal with where they are at.

  238. Not so scared

    I would like to live off-grid because I always wanted to be self-sufficient from constant working in a city just to afford basic essentials, rent,utilities, fuel for car, insurance, food, cellphone bill, all the other mundane needs. It is a constant cycle! I want freedom from bosses and try my best at greenhouses of food, share/sell/trade excess for other items I want. Fertilizer, soil, and more solar panels are givens. I’d like to be in sunny north Arizona or south Colorado for good sun, not too freezing. Plenty of fruit trees would be great too though I doubt I could manage the wait time before they bear fruit. I can dream, can’t I? :P
    I haven’t any fear of these previous commenters, they were funny though, lol. Yellowstone, earthquakes, and Awshoot was the best with “For the non-believers in the NWO, please take a look at GOOGLE under Agenda 21.” I think it is easy to die from any number of things any way, so it doesn’t make sense to run to the woods for no reason other then fear. I just want to have plenty of garden space and free and quiet time to study and write programming codes (satellite internet). I’ll drive to a big city when I want some chicken or hamburger meat :)

  239. doomas

    Folks;;; I have about ten e-mails from people wanting to make there stand where they are at. You can prepare and not have to build again in a strange place. With jobs so tuff now its hard to leave and start over just to build a ”safe house”.
    Well if you stay put, study out the infrastructrue of your surroundings. Figure where the best fresh water is. What is down hill from the ”sewage treatment plant” Where does the storm water drain to. Check out city drawing of tunnels and subway lines that are under ground. Get a rough out line of the power grid. After this check out the county area around you. What is N- E-S-W of you. What is the highest hill/mountian and the lowest. What do you have in way of lakes,ponds,streams,and rivers. Don’t forget the woodland and open fields. Check them all out for anything they have. Make notes, try out the fishing and hunting. Find game trails. Learn what plants grow where. If you figure this all out and never need it, look at the gift you can pass on to your kids!!

  240. doomas

    Folks;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;One prepper who contacted me by e-mail made the stand of staying in the North. If you were prepared, so be it. Lots of things to over come. But if you are the overacheaver type, give it a try with my blessings. His thought was that any one not ready would not try to go north and live. All people,even those who have not given any thought to this, know its warmer in the south. The only people staying in the north would be the ready,willing,and able. Hopefully most would leave and not return. Hopefully no new commers would arrive. Thus,,more for those who were ready and can make it there in the future. Good luck, keep working on your plan.

  241. Sean

    Anywhere away from population. Near a water source but away from oceans and nuclear reactors, will be fine with me. Any thoughts on the Ozarks? I hear its REALLY in the middle of no where.

  242. Gregie'

    There are many areas that are suitable. I have lived and worked all over the world. At age 57 and facing a couple of operations because of Harley meets Oak tree and DUI uninsured driver, I now live on disability and a part time job. The reason I say all that is to tell all of you that you can do it! I bought and paid for 15 acres, and got out completely debt in ten years making less than a $1000 a month on disability. Today I put five of my 15 acres up for sale to finance a off the grid bug out shelter/home. (losing my excellent credit rating was the best thing that ever happened to me)! I picked East TN because I know the area, it,s far away from Yellowstone ha ha, it does have some people and a rail system which will help if the federal government survives and rebuilds. Liam mentioned the Madrid Fault saying it made the southeast a bad surivial choice. I beg to differ. Unless you build your bug out shelter on tip of a Memphis or Knoxville skyscraper, or live in, or happen to be in a heavy masonry structure you should be safe. Falling things kill in earth quakes not the shaking of even a 9 point earth quake. The worst problem of the living in the south east in a say a super eruption of yellowstone would be YOU. Ha ha! I should say those that are unprepared are the real problem. The starvation and such would be massive, unbelievable, so awful, and last so long (up to five years) so complete (world wide) that I don’t know if I would want to survive.

  243. ALROD53

    Carole, That area is supposed to be under water, Check out the US navy map of the US after the polar shift…
    Have a look.

  244. George

    I live in Missouri and I agree with the list. Look how the Amish do it we should pay attention, They will be here long after the cities are gone.
    I am working on leaving the grid.

  245. Carole

    NOTHING in NH, ME, or MA – how come?

  246. Faithtoohope

    Thanks Wolfyrex. I’m in Follansbee. Was just a new story in the news today of another murder/suicide. That is over 10 since November. Wheeling late last week had the biggest drug bust in the history of the state.

    I didn’t mention the registered sex offenders. They are on every corner, even in this small town. Child porn busts are frequent. This is “small town America” in wishful thinking alone.

  247. GreatGrammaJudy

    Well, your home is your castle!!! I live in SE Alaska on an island and yes it will be very hard to live here in a crisis. However, it is home and I know that everyone here would pull together. The grow season it short n nonexistent. There is fish and some game, berries and a little ebable vegitation. Most of my family lives here. I feel very safe here and would not think of moving… Good Luck to us all and God Bless America…

  248. doomas

    To All, This talk about where to go and the good and bad of each place. Well thats allright, its just that this is as much, or more, aframe of mind as anything. You can not expect to just get somewhere and everything will be allright. You need to put your self in the mind set to do no matter where you end up. What if you can’t get to your ”garden of Eden”? You will have to deal with it where you are. You will need to have your surville skills as sharp here as anywhere else. If you think there is somewhere else that would be easer places to live, move there now and start your plans. If you can’t move now, start your plans where you are at. If you can make them work in a bad spot, look how much easer they will be if you get to your place in the back country. But for all the new people, I don’t see nearly the questions one would think need addressing. May be I’m the one who don’t know anything and the few that have ask one or two are just trying to make a old man feel good thinking he’s helping someone out.

  249. Wolfyrex

    faithtoohope is correct on WV. I grew up in the Ohio Valley & have relatives living in the Weirton area. We moved to Pocahontas County, WV 2 years ago. Living on a small homestead & working towards off-grid capability. Also, we recently purchased several acres at +- 4,000 ft elevation at $813.00 per acre. It’s 10 minutes from our farmhouse & is convenient for hunting, firewood etc… If moving to a rural area is your goal. Keep it remote & a low population. 1,000 people is too many. There are plenty of deals out there yet if you do your research. You don’t really have to be near a walmart to survive. We use all our local Mom & Pop businesses. They’re close & the more you do your shopping with them, the better. It’s helpful to the community. Anyone can come up with a list of their top 10 places to survive. I don’t have a top 10 list, I have a top 1 list, HERE!!

  250. Faithtoohope

    I see a lot of talk on West Virginia. While it is true there are many beautiful places here…our good politician in comment 36 has skewered the truth about this state. Crime, particularly drug crime, is terrible. There was just a news story the other day attesting to the fact there are more than 1 meth lab busts a day. Its off grid areas make it a meth labs dream. The northern panhandle is a hotbed of heroin busts, murder suicides, home invasions, and DUI. Everyone here does indeed have a gun…and more than a few have the drinking our drug problem to go with it. I live in the steel valley and it is a dying area as more and more mills shut down. In small towns like where I live 1 in 5 houses stands empty, some for decades until they fall in on themselves. The good politician brags of 2% tax rate but failes to mention the 1-6% tax levies that actually pay for everything. The roads are potholes of death with many not being repaved for decades. Our town finally had our highway repaved after two decades because Steven Spielberg paid for it in order to UPDATE the area for the filming of Super 8. The educational system in the second lowest in the nation and kids drop out in droves. When looking for a place off grid…talk to the people in the area. Politiciand and travel bureus only have dollar signs in mind. Not portraying a truthful picture of the place.

  251. shannon

    I am interested in finding a christian atmosphere to live off grid in Canada

  252. doomas

    Mezmurized; Good quality and hope it does not over burden you. Wheel barrow our yard cart would help. As far as where Just look whats around you. Study up on what makes a good choise. How about large first aid kit first. Can use trhat anytime anywhere. Get several 4ft, pieces of PVC pipe to bury your small stuff. Out of sight, out of mind. Canning jars, fish nets, traps, snares,anything else you feel good about. You have older kids, husband, boy friend? delagate jobs to them about learning different things. Have them specilize in a few things, not one person doing it all. I hear alot of people talking about guns,well OK, as long as you have gun powder and shot, thats dry gun powder. How about bow and arrow? But it all goes back to try and ASK.ASK,ASK. Start this spring with a garden, then canning a few things, see how you do. Next time around, can more and eat the oldest to freshen up your supply. When the time to run comes, things would only be a year or tow old.

  253. mezmurized

    awsoot and doomas. You both are an inspiration to thousands. Your knowledge and compassion touches my heart and gives me hope for the future of humanity. Don’t ever stop sharing your gift especially when we need it most. I would like to ask you something. Where is the best place to find good camp gear for discount prices? and is it better to pack light or should I bring everything I can bare. I have begun reading about the basics of planting and gardening building shelters fires ect is there anything else I should look into?

  254. doomas

    Awshoot; Your comments will be missed. It is hard to hear people talk about the bad things and then know they are sitting back, waiting for someone else to make the move for them. It would not hurt anyone to learn some basic skills. Even if they are never needed. Your knowledge can be passed on to others who might benefit from it. As I have been on this link, I feel as you, very few take it to heart. I wish more people would reply on how different things worked for them, good and bad. Is seems that the old saying” when all is said and done, there will be more said than done”, is true here as well. And you can not help those that will not help them selves. I have told many people to ”ask”,”ask”,”ask” and rarely hear a reply after. Maybe my answers ended their troubles and they need no more help, I really don’t think so. I for one still ask, Where are you people? What has been happening in your world since we last heard from you ? We are all in this together. We can atleast keep intouch. Share the good and bad. No question is a dumb one if you trully don’t know the answer. I know there are others who want to hear from you.

  255. Awshoot

    For the non-believers in the NWO, please take a look at GOOGLE under Agenda 21.
    There are so many things going on where the UN is programming the NWO it is almost unbelievable. It’s all on the web and ready for you to research and weep!
    Check GOOGLE about “ICLEI and Agenda 21”.

    “Agenda 21 initiatives through government grants are being pushed in every state in the nation. Under the guise of saving the planet from destructive humans through “visioning,” private property must be abolished in order to build “stackable communities,” where people are required to live on top of one another in mixed-use zones, within walking distance from schools and work, (the belief that once private property is abolished, jobs will be cropping up everywhere), thereby eliminating the need for transportation other than bicycles, buses and light rail. This vision also requires that land in rural areas no longer be allowed to become buildable and be given back to its “intended wilderness.”

    That means destruction of your country homes, farms, ranches or whatever and the restoration of trees, flora and fauna.

    The curtain is going up on a dark era for all and it appears that the oligarchy has thought of just about everything. If not, they’ll soon realize the error and correct it.
    Keep in mind, it’s all about reduction of population through starvation control and they do mean business. Somehow, I really don’t believe the truth always sets you free.
    I wish this whole thing was just a cheap science fiction flick being shown at the local movie theater, but apparently it’s for real.
    This will be my last post. I’ve probably brought you all the bad news necessary to give a few nightmares. Not that it was my intention. It’s not good for an old codger like me to learn all of this stuff. Not good for anybody. I expect to miss all of it anyway but I do feel sorry for you young-uns.

  256. doomas

    Mezmurized; If you have that big of fear, don’t worry or wait for others. Thats what they are doing. Make your plan and build on it. Other like minded people will show up as you go. I am not sold on the ”team” out look as others. Remember, you will have to feed all that are with you. And I know there are ones who will not pull there own waite. Then someone will have to ride herd on everyone. Could be more than its worth. Build your skills for your family. Learn the canning food thing. Then shelter. filtering water. Your own electric will come along. Just start doing something. But move on it and ASK!!

  257. Awshoot

    Some of the questions that need to be asked; How much money will this adventure cost and do I have the psychical endurance to actually do the work necessary to provide shelter, food, clothing etc for myself/family?
    Have I really considered that most of the advice offered for survival is related to farming? Can I acquire the necessary tools and use them properly?

    Because a large part of the off grid survival depends on my planting seeds and scratching my living out of the rocks, not mentioning defending my family and foods stores, do I have the knowledge to live without power lines and refrigeration?
    Should I be reading books not on survival but how the old timers actually lived without all the modern goodies like refrigerators, electric lights, freezers, washing machines, dryers, television, cell phones, ipads, computers, and a multitude of other useful and entertaining devices/conveniences?

    Am I prepared to raise and slaughter hogs then salt down the meat so it won’t spoil without refrigeration?
    Maybe eat jerky because it’s dried out and won’t spoil? Do I need to learn how to make jerky?
    Am I spending most of my time worrying and not digging out the information I really need for some kind of survival?
    What kind of proof can I find that all those seeds, food and whatever else sold by opportunist are really going to be good for me when I need them?
    Should I become concerned with how to preserve my own food, seeds etc. and do my own thing with much less money?
    Do I know how to do the simple things necessary to do plumbing? Or simple wiring to hook up a wind generator so I can charge a battery? Can I make a hand or wind driven water pump for pumping water from a creek to a useful location? How about a small windmill?
    How do you know that you are not over charging the battery you intend to use for whatever? Do you know what over-voltage is? Excessive charge rate?
    I could go on for pages more, but I think you’ll get the idea by now.
    It’s easy for me to sit here in front of my computer and talk about the many things that many younger folks don’t know. BUT….. I grew up doing all of those things as the modern conviences were being invented and new power lines were being installed before and after WW2.

    Earlier, I drew a bucket of water twice a day from the head water spring of a creek and carried it about one hundred yards to our log cabin. 1928-1938. I did my school home work by the light of the reliable old kerosene lamp. My hunting dog, “Ole Bawldy,” treed the game and I shot them out of the trees with my trusty Remington single shot .22 rifle. I was only allowed to wear shoes in the winter time. I graveled fish from the holes in the creek bottoms with my bare hands. It was a great life while it lasted, before I moved to the big city.

    I can still smell the mason jar food being packed by my mother before she put them into the pressure cooker. How many folks today know how to make cottage cheese? My mother did. She would hang it on the clothes line wrapped in cheese cloth to drip. I used to sing “Bringing in the cheese” when I was little because I thought that was like the church song.

    Do you know how to safely use a pressure cooker? You better learn before you start, they blow-up if used incorrectly. It’s just a part of the simple life that goes with preserving food.

    Awshoot wants to tell you that one type of storage container you should consider is the schedule 40 or schedule 80 PVC sewer pipe, four inches in diameter or greater. Anything inside a PVC pipe with end caps properly glued is a safe bet from most all problems for about ten thousand years. Of course food will have to be eaten according to how long it will last and that’s the problem. It’s good for other things too, like ammunition so I hear.
    I just thought I’d add another challenge to folks who want to go off-grid. It’s a great life if you can pull it off. Remember, modern meds don’t keep forever and aspirin can be fatal for children.

  258. mezmurized

    Thank you so much for for your time and care. when I found out about how serious our economic collapse was and the new ndaa act signed by Obama I put two and two togather and realized our goverment is preparing for something big. Im not going to get into details because this would take hours to explain my reasons for this dramatic decision. But I will say for what it’s worth that I have actual proof of a new world order and fema’ intentions for the ones who stand by clueless and try to protest. I have kids and love them dearly and will not let them be taken from me or raped or killed by angry mobs when the lights go out. So I know the only way to survive is away from population with a “team” I will gather which will include many important skills to survive succesfully. The hard pard is getting people to wake up and see the crash coming. I hope you all well and thank you for your humanity you show on here. we are all in this togather. Teachthe children

  259. doomas

    Mezmurized; Can you find work somewhere else? Might want to think about moveing to a place alittle less populated. I would think with no skills in this area south would be kinder to you. Start with a small garden. Not to learn to garden per say, but learn to can and store so you will have those skills when you need them. You can garden where you are at, or at least buy from a farmers market and try your hand at canning. But still ask!

  260. doomas

    Mezmurized; I guess if you feel you no ”O” about what to do or where to start, you can start here. Ask, ask,ask, someone will tell you something. If I were in your place, I would figure out food and shelter. Try things and see what you can do. then think of how hard it would be to do there or if somewhere else would make things easyer. And again,,ask, look on line, read what others say and decide if that will fit your needs.

  261. mezmurized

    I live in northern Ma and have been trying to wake people up to the economic crisis along with the severe solare flares we are experiencing, And I have been found it frustraing because no one believes or cares. So now I am asking myself the million doller question . Being in a heavily populated state with cold winters when is it time to evacuate this northeast ? I have limited knowlege on living self sufficiently but have always been facinated by the idea. I dont want to further endanger my kids if I flee to early without the know how. But also dont want to be here when everyone finally figures out whats happening.

  262. doomas

    K Dreaming. You make some very good points. My self I will try the boat, There are just so many things to consider and figure out. I guess one of the factors will be ”what happens” and when and where. Good luck and keep shareing ideas. Never know what you will absorb here.

  263. kalifornia dreaming

    This thread is a blast! So, American Samoa and Alaska are on my list, the others are a secret. And yes, there are sound reasons for thinking about such things. Some of my thoughts:
    I think it’s better (in some cases) to hide out and then after things settle down to find and join a community, or become a slave to the military? So, where to hide out? Find at least 3 places to hide out for at least a year. 1 place out of the USA (best) > like go teach English in Mongolia, but Australia is our top pick.. Have 2 places in the rural USA, one very remote and the other between that and home in the city. The goal is to make it to your most remote spot. The closer to home spot is a rest stop of sorts. Make sure you have enough food, water, and fuel at each spot, the more the better. Don’t worry too much about guns, gold, and excessive survival gear; food and water is key, after that it’s strong pain-killers, medicine and TP. Think lite, not heavy. Better to run and hide than fight, unless you have a BIG army. After a gun goes off, it’s time to hide what you can and leave. I think the best places to go are where people don’t want to go, or can’t go (hint: so they think). Both very cold and very hot areas help defend you from the undesirables, so don’t overlook such areas (food stores better in dry areas and good sun = solar power)… Avoid places where fires, flooding and the like are a threat (avoid potential disaster areas). Expect anything that can burn to burn, including forests and towns/cities. Best to have a stocked RV close to home. With that, have a motorbike and a fold-up bicycle. The bicycle can be strapped to the motorbike, and the motorbike goes with the RV. If the highways are blocked, take the motorbike. If the motorbike runs out of fuel take the bicycle. Think about extra useful things to stock-pile that are lite, small, and easy to trade later when things mellow out. Think seeds before gold, medicine before bullets. Consider that loud noises (engines) and cooking food (campfires) can attract undesirables from miles away, so consider alternatives when need be. Also, vacation at your spots when you can, enjoy what you have there and make it better<<<<<<
    And this is what I would NOT do as others have *stated here (IMHO):
    *Live at sea in a boat? Not for me. Why? Pirates, and there's no place to run. A small fold-up or inflatable boat can be a handy tool for fishing, stored on an RV, but I would live on land. Also, I would not expect any small island to be safe, as I think the military has plans for most of them. A submarine would be cool if your rich like Bill Gates, and buy an island with an underground base.
    *Live by a military base? Not for me. Why? This all depends on what the threat is. Living by an airport is a good idea, as it may help you get out fast when need be. Also consider that a military base can relocate and leave you behind unless you are a needed professional. Joining the military is a simple option, if they will have you.
    It all depends. Say you are a doctor and live in American Samoa. There is a military base there and they would most likely stay there and 'secure' the population if something went very bad in the states. So that may be the best place for a doctor or the like. If your not a doctor, then the locals may eat you. A boat and/or a plane may help to avoid that. Likewise, the military would most likely secure Alaska in the same fashion… If things got bad enough, then branches of the military may fight each other too.
    And FEMA camps!? Oh the horror! lol. I'm more worried about a gang burning down my city. To each his own…

  264. Awshoot

    To; Its-Go-Time
    Great idea if it’d work but you must remember the past organizations where folks got together and swore to defend their property. The government made a point out of taking them out one by one.
    When you get a meaningful crowd, somebody always makes a lot of noise about how well armed the location is, then the ATF moves in with help from the armed services {Tanks Etc.} and that’s the end.
    I’m certain you remember them as history now.

    I think the best way for survival is to do it pretty much on your own. Keep a low profile and keep your mouth shut about whatever you accumulate for survival.

    Anybody who says that there isn’t a part in this whole situation that includes FEMA has got their head stuck right up their ass.
    For myself, I know I won’t survive. I’m 91 years old and couldn’t care less about surviving in a world that is unknown to me,

  265. doomas

    Rudy, Did you look at the side bar of this post? There are alot of people looking as you are. Might find some one or a group to work with. Lots of links to follow. good luck!!

  266. Rudy

    ALROD53, you wrote:

    “And a lot of our United States still allows you to build what we want to live in without any regulations..” Where are some of those places? Any in NM?

  267. laura

    Don’t live in pennsylvania because separate taxes between school property and house property taxes not together just separated… we will move out of pennsylvania until my son graduate… done with it… and fed up all this…

  268. doomas

    Me; Those ppl might just teach a person a thing or two. You never know. They have been through some hard times

  269. ITS-GO-TIME

    we all have different ideas and opinions so lets just all put in an equal work and effort and find a good place for all of us to live off the grid together and let someone try and take what we work for and they will be sorry…im serious…

  270. me

    mtn home arkansas is not a good place to live. i should no i live here! the only thing this place is good for is old ppl and christians.

  271. doomas

    Awshoot; Yes its sad, all the big money spent by Monsanto to insure the right vote to get there little plot worked out. They claim its all in the name of food safety, BULL. Its just big money talking. Trying to make more for there share holders and them selves. They don’t really care if the world starves to death or not, as long as they end up with all the money. To them its like playing marbles. He who has all the marbles in the end wins. The fat cats in Washington are in there pocket as we speak. As deep as we are in to this now I don’t see a real easy fix. I guess a total clean out would help but to get that to happen would be to much to hope for. We are going to be in real trouble as a world, not just our country. We are expeted to lead. This kind of leadership is real frightening. I will always plan for my family but this is crazy! There are so many people on this blog alone who think they have a real place to hole up when the time comes. You can see from there choises they have not done to much thinking on it. It would not hurt anyone to know how to build with raw materials. plant a garden, hunt, fish, trap,and tan leather. I was reading a old book about the Mongoles. How they made foot wear from a cow or horse hide and never cut or sewed it. I will try that soon to see for my self. There have been people faced with these thing for ages. We are just now getting there.

  272. Awshoot

    Monsanto is in the process of acquiring and patenting their newest technology, known as “Terminator Technology.” This technology is currently the greatest threat to humanity. If it is used by Monsanto on a large-scale basis, it will inevitably lead to famine and starvation on a worldwide basis.

    Billions of people on the planet are supported by farmers who save seeds from the crops and replant these seeds the following year. Seeds are planted. The crop is harvested. And the seeds from the harvest are replanted the following year. Most farmers cannot afford to buy new seeds every year, so collecting and replanting seeds is a crucial part of the agricultural cycle. This is the way food has been grown successfully for thousands of years.

    With Monsanto’s terminator technology, they will sell seeds to farmers to plant crops. But these seeds have been genetically-engineered so that when the crops are harvested, all new seeds from these crops are sterile (e.g., dead, unusable). This forces farmers to pay Monsanto every year for new seeds if they want to grow their crops.

    What is even more frightening is that traits from
    genetically-engineered crops can get passed on to other crops. Once the terminator seeds are released into a region, the trait of seed sterility could be passed to other non-genetically-engineered crops
    making most or all of the seeds in the region sterile.

    Mexico is considered the mother region where all corn originates. The presidente down there saw to it that most of the tens to hundreds of different original corn, native to the area, would be contaminated by a test planting of the new versions of hybrid corn from Amerikan laboratories.

    “If you control the oil you control the country;
    if you control the food you control the population.”
    — Henry Kissinger

  273. brookieb

    LOL, I live about 45 min to an hour from Red Oak. I can tell you southeast Oklahoma is one of the BEST places to live! I left this area for about 10 years to try out the rest of America, moving about every year to a new city.. Never again!!! I was born and raised here and will never leave again!

  274. doomas

    John; what are you looking for really? Look at the side bar on this post. There are others that are looking as well.

  275. John N

    Living in New Hampshire , looking for information on living off the grid and with possibility of meeting others with same thoughts .

  276. doomas

    NinaG; I don’t follow your train of thought. I believe no north states are chosen because people are trying to get by and are thinking of the cold weather. Real hard to raise food and keep warm in the northern winters. Anywhere south just makes it a whole lot easyer.

  277. NinaG

    Yep all places that are exclusively white, that is the reason why he has no Northern States on the list, I suppose. Even though chinese act more white at least in the state of Maryland where I live…

  278. doomas

    Whip; you are right . I think where should be kept to your self, its the how that need’s to be worked on. The things you can and need to learn will be of use to you even if the ‘big bang’ oes not come. Would’nt it be nic to be able to leave a self supporting home stead to your kids? No out standing debt would be a good start for a young family. And the skills you would be able to teach them would be priceless.
    I know how long I’ve been working on this and never found many with any ideas to pass on. Now people are interested because of the chance of everything falling apart.

  279. Whane The Whip

    Unfortunately, the best way to ruin a retreat point, is to publicize it. So I read this as “The ten best places to avoid in America, when considering where to live off the grid.”

  280. Jobs in Kansas

    Nice post! But I would like to add it to that, I think as far as surviving in concerned, Kansas is also a nice place for that, the economy is pretty good and jobs are available over it.

  281. doomas

    Awshoot, I speak with alot of people about Alterative Energy, at one time I had a Alternive Energy web site. I find two types of people more than any other. The intence worrier that is running ahead of the ‘sensationalest fear driver’ They have had their emosions driven by stories of sun flares and total darkness, world caios, thugs and goverment regulators.Years of food storage and hunting and trapping. There are others who ask a few questions and don’t really say what their direction is. They very seldom reply to your suggestions. I ‘m a Alterative Energy guy my self. I can to the survielist thing though. There are alot of things that can be done other that run and hide to preserve our ‘world as we see it’. People are allways saying they want to find a group and start there own little town so to speak. If you are willing to start fron scratch, why not fix what we already have? I would much rather live in my world here than start over with out anything. Start building,roads, schools, water systems, recycling centers, waste treament plants, some sort of police department. fields, crops, sick bay, animals,on and on……Waite—them are all the things we are trying to get away from!!!!! So if you would read between the lines. we would be better off fixing what we have, it will be real hard to start over and get something better.
    I would talk to people about Aterative Energy ant they did not even know the difference between A C and D C power. They were just going with the flow. I would try to under stand where they were trying to get and then how to best get there. Most of the time it was to just improve there property by up grading their doors, windows, and insulation. I try to talk to people by way of one on one e-mail. so they can say whats on there mind and not feel they are saying something that would sound stupid

  282. Awshoot

    That’s a good idea Doomas. There’s no place where you can go to rid all of the possibilities. Don’t worry at all about the silly things like fault lines, nuclear plants, solar flares etc. Actually, there’s no reason to worry about FEMA camps. If they want you they’ll come and get you wherever you are. All of this concern over solar flares is ridiculous. You wait, nothing of significance will come of them. As far fault lines, well, I lived right on top of one in Inglewood California for thirty five years and not a quiver.
    I think that Denise should stop the intense worry about the whole thing and evaluate different places to live with the intent of enjoying life. Life is too short to spend what time you have left worrying about what might possibly happen to you.

  283. doomas

    Denise, Check the side bar classifieds on this post. Might put in the right area for what you are looking for.

  284. doomas

    Denise, Identify what you fear the most and the best way to deal with it. Hunt up other people who would fit your plan and make your own ‘community’. Keep all the bad things in mind as you build your group or place.

  285. Denise

    Hello people.. Are there any off grid “communities” so a family of 2 are not alone? Sure could use some advise leaving Long Island, NY and not sure where to go… and whether or not I should hook up with an RV park or go off grid. Appreciate your imput.. Again I had mentioned I am trying to avoid areas with Nuclear Plants, Fault Lines, FEMA camps and Gov’t bunkers.. just in case our Gov’t gets carried away with Martial Law, and reconstructing our Constitution. Praying for only good to come out of all this upcoming inevitable NWO.

  286. Awshoot

    Thirdpartyobserver has a problem with modern reality. He doesn’t seem to know the difference between todays technology and that of seventy years ago. I can understand that because we all would like to ignore the reality that there is no real place to hideaway any more.
    If certain parts of the government wants to clear an area of people to retain the diversity or whatever it’ll be a snap. In todays world you can run but you can’t hide. The idea that you can live off the military enemy is totally wrong. I presume that we are all concerned about the possible population reduction ideas that seem to be making progress. If you watch and listen to our law makers you’ll quickly see that they are covering all bases.
    I agree that it will take time for them to run everybody down but if that’s truly their goal, it will be done. You might buy some time if you’re a loner in the woods near a river but that will be for the few.
    As far as growing crops and surviving with a family in a restricted area, forget it. Stop and think of how much cleared acreage is required to grow the food. The Mormons have stored food in their compounds for the survival times they anticipate and the government is keeping a close eye on them. If and when it all goes down their food supply will go too.
    Actually, I have some doubts that this de-population will actually happen this way. There are those who want to do it and there are those who don’t. If the bad guys get control of the total food supply, it’ll happen. They know that whoever controls the food supply controls the nation. They also know that people will be killing each other to eat.
    Therefore, people shouldn’t be planning so much on how to survive in the wilderness as much as they should be doing something about changing the attitudes of those behind the population control schemes.

  287. Lisa

    As a person who lived in Chicago for half a Century, that is the last place I would want to be.
    Trust me… your Alderman will be long gone. that is where people will goto to pillage.

  288. Cringe

    Sierra Blanca is a big sewage dump, I don’t know if I would want to live were other places are shipping their waste to.

  289. thirdpartyobserver

    One more example of running and hiding from the prevailing culture. It was recently discovered that there is a tribe of Indians in the Sierra Madre Mtns in Mexico who are descendents of Apaches, Yakis, and other indigenous tribes. They retreated into the depth of these mountains to escape persecution by the Mexicans. They lived virtually the same way as their anscestors 150 years ago. Don’t tell me its not possible. Geronimo reportedly stated he made a huge mistake coming in. DON’T COME IN-He could have lived the rest of his years in those mountains. It did not help his people in the long run anyway.

  290. thirdpartyobserver

    Please find the documentary on the Bielski Brothers of Belarussia. They evaded Nazis with 300 people for over three years. They resupplied at the expense of the enemy. I don’t mean the movie Defiance, but the actual documentary. For all the folks who thing this kind of stuff, like military rounding people up, I say you are severely ignorant of history. It happened in 1870-1890 to native americans, and in the 20’s-30s to Jews and other “undesirables” . Ask any Jewish person who is oldest enough to remember the holocaust and ASK THEM if this is crack pot crazy talk.

  291. thirdpartyobserver

    Just before the Trail of Tears military sweep of the deep south, the Indian Agent for the area of SE LA/SW MS told the natives to run to a place called Devils Swamp in the Pearl River area. They did, and stayed there for nearly 100 years. Right now, they have some pretty salty creatures living there, and not necessarily Indians. Nail up wall, floor frames, sheets of plywood between 4 trees above the high water mark, throw up a rough roof, a door, and three windows, have a boat, wood stove, lanterns, traps. It rough but possible.

  292. doomas

    Alrod53, Thanks for the off grid site tip. Lots of pro’s and con’s for everyone. I my self don’t see sailing the world so to speak. Just a way to get out of sight of the land locked people that have gave no thought to what they will do when the time comes for the big “bang” I have spent a good deal of reserch on where and how to go threw this. Still have some things to iron out yet, but thanks!!!!!!

  293. Alrod53

    Doomas, Please check out.
    You may want to rethink taking to the water. I’ve been a boater and in the marine industry for almost 40 years and wouldn’t do it.

  294. doomas

    Worried, You would do well finding like minded people. Find others with skills you don’t have. Define what you are the most fear, plan against that. Long term planning would be best.

  295. glowbug

    A reminder of where we came from. Pioneers did it and helped each other. They bought very little and lived during a time of unrest. Family and neighbors were important to them. We’ve also gone through the great depression and world wars that greatly taxed our buying ability. We made it! Granted people at those times knew how to do things. This generation has the warning its coming. So learn how to do things and prepare by making sure you have the knowledge and ability to provide for your family. Do what you can to prepare where you are if moving to the country isn’t something you can afford. Make sure you have clothing that will keep you warm in the event there’s no heat. Store food and water. Start planting a garden, even if its container planting. Search the internet for old time skills, learn all you can. Look what happened during Katrina. Gangs and drug addicts ran amuck stealing all the valuables they could, but did little that would contribute to their immediate survival. Then there was some who boiled water and worked together to make it through. The majority sat and did little waiting to be rescued because they didn’t know what to do. Education is greatly needed! As someone who served my country and there are others on this thread who served and were willing to die for freedom and the people in this country it is disheartening to see the attitudes of kill or be killed. After all i bet most who fought for your life did not do it just so they could come home and kill you. Kinda of a waste of the sacrifice that those who did die for you made! The biggest things that have changed from settling this country and now is that we have forgotten that we are capable and strong! We have the ability to learn and help each other! Attitude is our biggest problem but we can change that too! Does that mean i’m soft? No i’m willing to help you learn. I would feel obligated to you after all we are from the same cloth. I already risked my life for you more than once! But if you think i’m soft and would hesitate to shoot you if you came for trouble, you would be mistaken. All i’m saying is before you start shooting think about the kids that just died for each of us and honor their sacrifice by teaching and helping each other to prepare as much as they possibly can. Even if you are unable to move to the country there are lots of things you can do right where you are. If you live in an apt in a city you will have the most challenges! I would atleast move outside of town. The last thing you want to do is be trapped by people in a panic! Stock up on medications and antibiotics. You can buy them online from pharmacies out of country. Check out the internet and reviews so you buy from reputable pharmacies. Flee or stock up depends on where you are and if your neighbors are prepping. If you will need to flee then you will need a stock pile hidden somewhere you can get to when the pumps shut down. See the immediate plans can be different for different people. The ideal situation would be to go off grid and stock pile at the very least. If you would like some ideas and help planning for your individual situation email myself or others who are level headed and educated, there are alot of people knowledgeable.

  296. Kimberly

    If you are anti-vaccines or make alternative vaccine choices I would stay away from West Virginia because as far as I know its very difficult to stay away from vaccines in that state. They almost make it impossible especially when it comes to your children. I for one would not live there for that reason alone. Other than that is sounds like a great place and saddens me that for us its not an option.

  297. glowbug

    This is for awshoot and other would be gardeners – All crops reproduce themselves. Cut those left over potatoes into 4-6 pieces, depending on the number of eyes and put in the ground. They will grow more potatoes. Some plants like herbs and greens must be left to grow seeds on stalks. Beans will make more beans. You can pick and dry or leave on the vine to dry. Corn just put those dry kernels back in the ground. The pain is tomatoes – rinse the goop off those seeds and lay out on paper towel or news paper to dry. The only time a real gardener buys seed is the first planting. If you have a green house and able to plant crops more often – fake the seeds out and put in freezer or snow bank for a couple weeks then replant. Fertilizer is that stuff that comes out of your animals butts, ashes, bones, egg shells – in general compost. lol
    And after all that work n fighting you’ll want to get cleaned up. Soap is made from ashes. Pour water through ashes – that liquid is called lye and is very abraisive to skin so avoid it. Mix with melted fat – more lye for cleaning floors and clothes – more fat for soft soap to bathe with. Pour into whatever shapes you want and allow to harden.
    To survive without a store first you need to learn how to do things for yourself. If we all got busy learning how to make thread, soap, food, cheese and butter etc… And then put those skills to work – We wont have time to fight. lol
    However not to be mean just realistic – there will always be a certain number of people too lazy to do for themselves!!!! And bullets are cheap so stock up you’ll need those too or better yet learn how to make them with your own hand made powder.
    Survival knowledge is gold. Water is always needed – food is something we can go along time without if you stay well hydrated. Especially if you have some body fat to start with, heck i’ve gone two weeks on nothing just to loose weight. The first three days are the hardest, then you get more energy and a heightened sense of awareness. Its natures way of helping you find that food. Point is that as time goes by people without food will get sharper, stronger and meaner. Lets not forget all the withdrawals people will be going through that will contribute to their strength and mental state. Caffeine, sugar, drugs and alcohol, cigarettes etc. Good idea to wean off now. Cold turkey might be bad.
    At any rate, just sayin the internet and grand parents are a wealth of knowledge in how to do stuff with nothing. The more ya know the less fearful you’ll be. Teach or challenge your neighbor to learn how to do something and get the learning curve going. Bartering is great too if people would think about working together. I’m great at gardening, making butter and cheese and soap – but i hate to sew. lol People will always need people, as Doomas pointed out it’s alot to be totally self sufficient almost impossible.

  298. worried

    I live in cape girardeau mo i know what lies beneath our land but the whole reason why worried is because if something begins or get the true warning of a big change where do u go definally not staying in my house like a sitting duck. What i honestly would do is get all the camping equiment i need to live outdoors in including building tools that arent electric basics for starting fire. Set up came near a clean water supply deep in the woods. Go to the store get vegetable seeds lots of packs of a varity of food i will need . Gather up canning supplies so it will be possible to save food for storage in winter months. definally have guns to hunt and protect myself. learn also how to trap without guns . Definally store medical supplies omg there is so much to do but dont know to do it i wish i knew

  299. Awshoot

    I’m a bit of a romantic, so I thought maybe a little quoted advice would be helpful to some.

    “Climb every mountain, Ford every stream, Follow every rainbow, Till you find your dream.
    A dream that will need, all the love you can give, Everyday of your life, for as long as you live.”

    Some folks have pursued that advice with so much intensity they put music to it!

  300. doomas

    Bonnie; tried to reply to the address you supplied and it don’t work here. is it complete? Was going to ask about useing a green house to extend your growing season a mounth or two a year.

  301. Bonnie

    Ok, I’ll throw in my 2 cents. I’ve lived in 19 states and they all have their pros and cons. In the past few days there has been a huge solar flare that could easily take out the satellites (what, no internet??!!) When (not if) we get a worse one and the EMP takes out banking, grocery stores, , electric, water, communications, cars etc., then let’s hope by then that everyone is living in a sustainable living situation. I live in Alaska (yes it’s cold here and having grown up in Fla, I would have loved to move to South America), but would cost more than I have to move 5 people all the way down there from all the way up here. And while I will not move back down to the lower 48, I would rather move out of the country. Since that is not an option right now, the best I can do is to either get away from the city, railroads, military bases and at least 30 miles from the nearest major roads (not to mention nuke silos). We have propane to heat the house and there is plenty of wood for that too. People survived for many years up here in cabins and still do all the time just outside of town in -50 below weather. We have plenty of moose, and other wild animals, plus ice fishing in the winter. (We have refrigeration outside too). If we run out of water, we always have the snow (lol) to melt, filter and store up, (at least for 7 months out of the year). Underground living would be an option or at least a house built into the side of a hill. Or even a round house since the winds will eventually become too high to withstand not just here, but all over the US and in other places. Food can be grown underground with hydroponics and free energy, off the grid. (Many people up here already live off the grid.) It might not be the best place and I wish I could leave the country but we do the best we can where we are at and trust in yes, God (or whoever you believe in). We don’t have any state tax and they pay us each year while we live in AK. I would not live anywhere around the New Madrid fault mid states, nor would I live near the coasts. The east coast will experience a huge tsunami and people will be trapped on the highways trying to get out, especially in Fla. where my mom, dad and sis are. The rest of the family lives in Texas, but there too living in Houston is not wise because of what is coming, including the huge tsunamis (from the three asteroids that are yet to come), which will cut a new coastline . West coast is not a good choice unless it’s up in the mountains on the eastern side of California. But yes, Cal, Nev, and parts of Utah, New Mexico, Wash, Wyoming, will experience flooding from the earthquakes and tsunamis. Yellowstone will blow eventually and so will Mt Rainier,and others in the NW and southern Alaska. The west coast earthquake and subsequent tsunami will also cover BC , Can up to the Hazeltons in BC. It’s not only the natural disasters we have to be concerned with, but also the Russian and Chinese invasion that has been planned for some time now. Those multi-national forces that have been trained at our bases are already here waiting to take down the people since our own troops won’t. And if that doesn’t get everyone in the country then the man made plagues they got planned for us will. So right now it could be the money that falls and creates chaos, but I’m looking at the solar flares which will cause more disasters such as earthquakes. So besides living off the grid and helping those you go into community with, it would be helpful for all to trust in God (yes, I said it), because we didn’t get here by accident and this will play out until the end which could be in a couple of years, or maybe longer. But I can guarantee you it ain’t going to be pretty. I wish you all well and safe keeping from here on out. If anyone needs information about living off the grid, I can share with you what I’ve found out and where I got my info from about what is going to happen to this country soon and in the next several years. So just email me at Bless you all and thanks for all the ideas on this site.

  302. Bark

    I see a lot of back and forth banter. We need to get away from extreme views as a society. To the Conservatives: The Environment is collapsing, big monopolies like Bank of America do not represent you (only the RICH), and war only sucks us into a hole and kills innocent civilians. And keep YOUR God to yourself, I already have mine! To the Liberals: Capitalism is GOOD, as long as it means the small farmer, the small bank getting ahead. Smaller government means less interference in your daily lives. And self-defense from criminals is MY right and YOUR right. Enough with the la-de-da, lets throw roses and all will be peace. We are all naked apes and some of us will never act civilized! Living and working together in community, supporting small business, and less intrusive government is the answer. Look to Vermont with their town meetings! Enough with the extremes already! Common sense can be found at

  303. Gimmie

    Well I live in Cedar City Ut but after seeing this i may have to move because of all the people that are going to run here. But thats ok. I already have the perfect unknonw place to go. Nice farming and ranching communyity away from any city. The people are nice and very friendly. Just the kind of place mentioned by some one about trading sugar for a piece of cake. It only has around 200-300 people. All with lost of guns. But sad for you I am not going to give it away. Love the list though.

  304. doomas

    Awshoot; I have never openly addressed the issus of defence, but, you are on the mark! You will have to protect you and your stuff with deadly force. If you are not ready to do that , don’t even start !

  305. Awshoot

    I live in Missouri near the center of the state. I think a lot of the comments here are reasonable but so far I’ve yet to find a single one that actually gets to the real meat of survival.
    Consider that there are no real or genuine old time seeds to grow food. You can spend a lot of money for a bag of seed that is mostly worthless. Certainly not reliable to sustain life for you are your family. All of the other seeds are patented by the large corporations and their success as a crop can be managed chemically before they are packaged. You will need good fertilizer whether it be from virgin land or purchased in a bag from one of those large corporations.
    You’ll need to keep meat on the hoof because there might not be any electricity for refrigeration. Animals on the hoof need to eat to. That means you will have to have land that will produce your food and your animals food.
    At one time I lived in Oregon County, Missouri. That is one place you can scrub off the list because the people there are still fighting the civil war. I was born there many years ago and I’m very familiar with the whole crowd.
    Then there is another problem that I don’t believe anybody who comes from the outside can handle successfully. There are a lot of potential survivalist in Missouri. I’ve listened to many of them while they discussed the manner in which they would choose to survive should the system break down. At minimum, 90% have preferred the hunt and gather way for survival. Now, if you don’t know what hunt and gather means, I suggest you find out before you spend one dollar for any “off grid” location.
    To simplify the definition I’ll be absolutely to the point. Hunt and gather means go to the persons house who has food and kill him, then take whatever you want that was his and hope you can return to wherever your hideout is located without being bushwhacked by another hunt and gatherer.
    I can only offer one good idea about survival wherever you go. Let me give you an idea through example. The little grey lizard who lives here in Missouri has been around for probably millions of years. He has survived all that time because he employs a life sustaining low profile. Blabbermouths who show up here with lots of guns, survival attitudes that reek with ideas incompatible with reality will be the first to get put under.
    And last, research the civil war focused on life in Missouri. From that you should get some idea of what you have to do to survive.
    Good Luck Ya’all, yore shore gonna need it while scratching a living out of the rocks and dodging bullets from the hunt and gathers.

  306. Galle

    No one mentions the sacred cow, over-population. Additionally, and as someone already said, telling all about the sequestered places to inhabit, just attracts more people and emulates the crowded place you were trying to get away from! Same old stuff…just a different day.

  307. doomas

    Alrod53; Yes a trawler would be a good choice. I favor the sail over any small motor. Because if the gas supplie runs out, you can still get around.I have gave some thought about running a boat aground and was thinking about the work necessasry to dredge a small landing canel or docking spot so you won’t be off shore or ran aground. Anchor off shore and row in would be a lot to deal with on a daily run in or out. I live on the east coast and have a good selection of boats to pick from. I know when the time comes getting a boat will not be hard. I’m still making alot of plans for the future and will settle them before a boat is bought. Thanks for your input. Will take another look at the trawler market and see what I find.

  308. Alrod53

    Doomas, I don’t know if you have your sailboat already or not, But I think you best bet would be a trawler type boat for long term liveaboard boat. A sailboat of 50 or 60 ft is going to have a pretty good draft (keel) of about 5to6 feet that may not allow you to get close enough to an island without getting grounded. And in having to stay so far off shore to insure that means a pretty good row in and out and if storm should come up while you are on shore it might be difficult to get back to you boat. Been there done that in the Bahamas. Trawlers are tough boats and have much more room and can also be sailed and many with small engines like sailboats and just a small keel you will be able to get closer to shore. We used to set an anchor off of the stern and tie the bow off to a good size palm tree. Just more ideas.

  309. doomas

    Anastascia; The size of the boat will be determined by how many people, how long on board, how well you can sail. If you can find land that is safe then you don’t need as sturdy of boat. Fiber glass boats are popular now but what about repaires in the future? You can repair fiberglass but a ferro cement boat might be easer to repair And you would have supplies at hand to build other thing out of.
    Lets say you leave with 4-6 people. A short sail could be done in a 12-14ft. boat. I would choose a boat thats 50-60ft so I could ride out rougher water,store more supplies, and live on before time to shove off came. Many people like the closed pod that can be rolled clear over and are air tight.They would not have to worry about bailing water or sinking as much. I don’t think they are made in a boat that is over 36ft. As far as other things to think about, to much to address here. Who would you travel with, what is their trade, can you live in close quarters with a mix group, this all needsa to be addressed. There are things I would like to know before I make plans for you.
    As far as where to look, depends on where you live, I would need to know that. How close are you to water now?
    e-mail for a closer look at your plans and how to cover all your base’s Would you beable to make a big move right now to start your plan in motion? Remember, this might not come to pass, you don’t want to burn all your bridges, as well as not tell everyone your plans. You could over load your “boat”. Doomas

  310. doomas

    Alrod53, I had hoped it would be alittle more than off shore. My though would be that I could sneak away and I being one little person or group they would not be interested in me. I think I could be off and gone before marshall law was up and going. You make a good point and I will be sure to look into it. A person needs to cover all bases.Thanks for taking a interest in my blog.

  311. Alrod53

    Doomas, While yes it may be nice to think that you will just sit offshore and watch everything happen from afar on your sailboat. But if the US imposes Marshall Law the coast guard is going to pick you guys up anyway. Besides I do not like the feeling of being a sitting duck on a sailboat. Even when just a storm hits. Been a sailor for over thirty five years. Just something to think about. I’ll keep my toes dry thank you.

  312. doomas

    mike peine; The address you give does nothing for my computor. Can you make it more plane or direct?

  313. Anastascia

    To doomas… can you tell me what would be the smallest, most survival sturdy boat to look for? And/or suggest a site to research boat sales, and operating a boat long term.

  314. mike peine

    please see my comments MIKE PEINE @CLaNZeR / PESWiki We have not ! Needed gasoline since 1969. STOP POVERTY and the GASOLOONS! This is FREE info. HOWEVER! once you read this , your life will change forever. FOR THE GOOD>

  315. doomas

    Will, I don’t think a couple of hundred mile is enough to keep desperate and hungry people away. I know if I was in need I would make the trip. To each his own, my reserch showes me a better place to make a stand.

  316. Will

    Hi Folks,

    I read a survival article awhile back and the author suggested Utah as the best place in America to survive. It is located in a place where major population hubs are far away ie: Denver, Los Angeles, etc.

    It has furtile places but the state itself is surrounded by desert to the north, east, west and south. Mormons are famous for being preppers themselves so you won’t have hoards of Utah residents storming your place.

    Land is releatively cheap and abundant. A great prepping website is:

    God speed to all of you out there.

  317. Joshua-Paul Angell

    Oops- I posted the link for our website Wrong… the above is not correct… (I’m tired and typing in the wee hours of the morning.) Our website is and that is where we are posting all of the information I wrote about, and posting about the rich history of the area and beyond. :) Thank You, Joshua-Paul Angell

  318. Joshua-Paul Angell

    I was pleasantly surprised to see Sierra Blanca, TX on your list. It is a wonderful place to go Off-The-Grid.
    We are moving permanently to 20 acres in Sierra Blanca- (just outside actually) and will be growing all organic foods, using solar panels, attempting to implement a Save The Bees program (pending funding) that will also pollinate our gardens. We finally have our website up, and will be chronicling our journeys from being born and raised in Chicago, to living in Texas (Austin) for 9 years, home to Chicago for 3 years- and the Rat Race is too much here- West Texas is beautiful and the history is amazing. General Patton was once influential in the area of Sierra Blanca, and the town itself, while being somewhat of a ghost town- is a pleasant place to survive on next to nothing- if you can successfully live off the Grid.
    Fantastic Choice you have made including our beloved Sierra Blanca. On our 20 acres we will be allowing overnight camping so that we can also educate everyone on just HOW and WHERE and WHY to go off the grid and live sustainably. Hopefully we will get some donors for our Bee Program- as this will also help educate passers by. It is 3 of us for now, and we will be building up a completely off the grid lifestyle- and attempting to help revitalize the historic town by getting some press, growing organic, roadside stand, etc. I haven’t read through all of the comments above yet, but I will sure do so. Sierra Blanca is a fantastic town- the outlying areas are beautiful, and most of the land is still cheap. I’m excited to be blogging on our new website about all of the challenges we face to get to where we want to be- I am hoping for success. Stop by our website sometime, It’s just up and running, so we don’t have all of what we would like done yet, but we are including pictures and history as they come in, and have started the Offcial Twitter for Sierra Blanca (our eco-community ranch) which is @sierraBlancaTX and our new website is

  319. Anastascia

    geeeze… i spelled response and fascinated incorrectly… good thing that spelling perfection is Not a required survival skill… or would it be for morse code? Oh so much to learn…

  320. Anastascia

    Ah… i didnt realize that i doesnt show on here. Yes i would like to communicate with someone about this, as i am in the “considering it” phase of this endeavor. There is much to do… i may just scale back… sell,donate excess items… then… trade in my vehicle for a conversion van with bathroom. Then i will learn to live in a small space, while i travel a bit… and do research. I know nothing about living on a boat… the idea has always fasinated me… much to learn…

  321. doomas

    Anastascia, If you want tips or help ideas or someone to talk to about this, leave a e-mail address

  322. doomas

    you are right, to live long term in the cold would be tough. And Indians roamed to find food and keep others out of there land claim. I’m going to the water and sail instead of “roam”.

  323. Anastascia

    Ok… i survived all of the twists and turns of this article… stilll looking for tips (i do like the boat idea)… reminded me of a time when i lived in the a place they call “the north country” near the St Lawrence Seaway in upstate NY. There were rumours related to some earthquake activity (dont know the rating of it) but… one of the earthquakes shook my home… in an instant shock sorta way. So… the “local villagers” were scammering about, the rumour was…that we would all drown (there was also a power dam nearby). When i was talking with my sister (we both share an odd sense of humour)… She was talking about all of the items they sold before moving to NY… One of which was a pretty, red, high powered speed-boat… which was a much valued “toy” owned by her husband. My sisters responce to all of the angst, regarding the “flooding of NY,” was… “Dammit… i told Dan we shoulda brought the boat”. Now… if you are not inclined to appreciate a bit of humour… thats really to sad. I consider it an important survival skill… Good Journey to All!

  324. Free_Thinker

    I’m afraid that all of you that are talking about living in a cold climate area have not thought this through. How will you survive with no heat? I think finding a climate that is not horribly hot in the summer or cold in the winter is the ticket. Plus it has to have a water and food supply. Why do you think the Indians roamed?

  325. doomas

    Glowbug; My though is if you were antwhere on the main land you would be over run by out sider’s. I lay’ed out a map and found that anywhere I put a mark, there was a large city close enough to find me to soon. The only far away places were in the western waste land or the far north. Both place’s would be hard to make a long term stand with out the break down of the rest of the country to deal with. As in no out side help for the things you can’t supplie on your own. Thats why I feel going to sea would be the best for me. You could get away from all the party crashers and not have to worry about loseing your food and supplies to the “good of the group”, those that failed to prepare. I think if you have investment funds and want to be part of a group,invest in the largest boat you can afford. Buy why with a down payment, and if the world falls apart don’t worry about paying it off. You could live aboard now and save alot on rent.and get used to the boat before it was necessary to “sail away”. Gather your group and see how liveing long term with them would be, before its a must do deal. Find the sailor, the farmer, the hunter, the stone mason-carpenter. Weed out the want-a-be’s, and just pick the people whe can do there part. After you leave for good, you won’t need money, life skills would be the value needed and what will see you threw. How about some doctoring skills ? Sooner or later you will be sick or hurt. talk more later.

  326. glowbug

    Hi Doomas Yes i’m looking into my options. I did see where one guy bought an island and was charging 10,000. for passports. A little out of my budget. lol That would leave little for start up for me. But yes my mind is set on obeying the bible and leaving. I have also been storing survival gear as i know being able to live with whatever situation arises is important. More important than being tied to any one spot. Cody Lundin and his primitive living skills has my attention. I grew up on a small family farm in Alabama. We raised goats for milk, cheese and butter. As well as chickens and rabbits for meat. Only buying flour, sugar and beef. So i fully realize those families in the Ozarks, Appalachians, Swamps etc are the ones who will know how to survive off the land. Not having alot of formal education keeps them free thinking and most have a good sense of who God is. Now i’m looking into buying some land and inviting those who want to prepare and have little resources to work with. One thing i’ve learned in my journey is that it’s far more important how we live than how we die. I’m 51 and realize at my age my contribution to survival may be to help others with a start and knowledge of how to do things. Any one who would like to offer suggestions or have info that may aid me in my pursuit of preparedness feel free to email me at

  327. doomas

    Glowbug, are you looking for a place to go now?

  328. glowbug

    I served in the Air Force worked around nukes (in & out of silos), worked for Cappilano out of canada searching for oil in Montana, Drove Truck cross country out of Boise Id., married a K-9 Officer – divorced n married a loser who landed me in prison for 2 1/2 yrs(only thing good was he got 20), after i got out n could not get a decent job – i worked independently as a high priced call girl. Been retired 7 yrs and walked away from it to get my life right with God. My IQ tested at 138. I said all that to say this – After i retired from that fun job a client who owns a major oil company called to warn me that we are about to be out of oil. Like you i also heard stories about impending doom – solar flares, aliens(discounted that one immediately lol) etc. So i decided to put all i was hearing along side revelation and thereby filter the crap. What i found along with the things i’ve learned working at more legitimate jobs was surprising. The bible spoke of no oil for heat, nuclear holocausts, inability to grow food for 3 1/2 yrs, volcano’s erupting and earth quakes. I point blank asked my friend about the stores of oil we have. He then let me know it’s not oil it’s our lack of ability to refine it that’s going to be the problem. Our refineries are going under and with all the regulations it would take at least 30 yrs to build new ones. He said ours will last maybe 10 yrs tops. That was 6 yrs ago. Having served i know once those refineries start breaking down and producing less fuel we will have to as a country ration gas as protecting our borders n emergency services get top priority. It takes fuel to produce electricity. Yes we have nuclear power plants as well as nuclear missile silos from one end of this country to the other. And all through it. We all saw what hurricane Andrew did to Florida with 3-4 hundred mile an hour winds. A mother load missile going off would set off others and produce winds up to 3000 miles an hour! From one end of this country to the other. The blast would rob our atmosphere of heat resulting in moisture freezing and falling back to the earth in blocks of ice up to 1 hundred lbs each. Multiple bombs going off could easily cause earth quakes and volcano’s to erupt. And the latter would easily cause a blackout of the sun for 3 yrs. The bible states we should flee america. Organized religion says it means we should come out of the way we are living and become self sufficient. Nuclear bombs do not care about city, county, state or country boarders. Nor do they care if you are self sufficient. As far as solar flares go the real problem is that this year we pass close to the sun just as one of our nuclear sub stations passes over us. And the fear is that it could blow from the heat of the sun. Maybe not probable but certainly possible and would have devastating results. Information is knowledge. First choice i would leave. As i shared that’s not possible for me, unless someone with a boat offered to smuggle me out. lol So for those who can not leave or do not want to – under ground is your best choice. I live in an area where you can get cargo shipping containers practically for hauling them away. They bury n convert easily n cost effectively into living quarters or storage for food. Since food doesn’t grow in the dark. And food or water above ground would be contaminated by radiation fallout even if it is sealed. The containers would need to be a minimum of 20 feet under ground. Never look toward a blast it will damage your retina’s permanently and depending on distance can cause blindness. Where is the safest place to be – the bible says they will flee to the mountains and the deserts. So apparently they are still intact. My knowledge of nuclear bombs and silos would keep me away from our southern deserts, montana, idaho, all coastal areas and some central states. Staying close to military instillations is shear folly! That’s where they store the bombs. lol But then it would be the quick way out. :) A friend who works on nuclear subs sent his family to live in N. Dakota. Not a wise choice either. Sorry Canada beware as i said bombs do not honor borders. All our borders have bombs. Appalachian Mtns on western side, utah, colorado and northern desert areas are high on my list. Under ground with enough food for 3 1/2 yrs for each person. The bible also says God will open fresh springs for his people in the mtns and desert so how much water you will need is up to you. I would say as much as you can store in buried cisterns. If you bury everything well and conceal the entries properly guns and ammo may not be needed except for hunting animals that will be contaminated. ugh i’ll opt for dried foods. Anyone want to take me in? lol God Bless n i will pray that financial collapse is all we have to worry about even though the bible says different.

  329. roger

    found this website while looking for why its important to be able to survive on your own. me personally am still in highschool but am very interested in going primitive. i look around me and see overweight, rich, and people that simply could not survive on there own due to being babyed there whole life. what has school come to? are we really learning important stuff? i think that the possibility is there for something significant to happen very soon as evidence points to it. me and my friends have been perparing for about two years now but still feel we need to do more. it seems buying land in northern wisconsin seems like a fairly good idea due to the fact there are few people there. i myself have gone up there countless times and feel that i could survive there with little supplies if need be. i believe that our government should not be trusted and they know something and arent telling us or are planning something. perpare yourself my friends. thanks for all the input it helped me out a lot

  330. doomas

    The best place to be would be on the water. 50-6oft sail boat. Fishing nets and crab pots. Far enough off shore that no one could see you. South in winter, north in summer. Start now. Buying gear and learning to sail. Some larger boats can be handled by 1-2 people. plant a garden on a distant island. Gather fire wood along the beach. Stock pile on the island. Maybe even rabbits and chickens,goats, sheep. Hidden away on a island they could take care of them selves for a good while. Be a long time before anybody though to look on a off shore island. Well, thats what I’m doing. Good luck.

  331. Scott

    I’m looking at southern Utah myself. I’ve read some interesting statements on here, some a little crazy but I don’t care why people prep, just as long as they do.
    If there were a collapse do you really think the military will enforce marshal law in mass? As a 22 year military person I’d say NO, they have family’s too, same with the police. I for one would not respond for that call up and stay home to protect my family and join with those in my prepper community. It is vital to establish that community because numbers matter and it will bring a greater diversity of skill sets. My wife is an RN, I have worked in many areas of construction, auto mechanic, I hunt and fish and can manage a pretty good garden as well in addition to my military background. We are hoping to get to south west Utah soon and look for land within a short drive from our primary residence with like minded folks as neighbors that we can network with.

  332. Robert

    When the eventual economic collapse happens, there will be anarchy and police state, side by side. No matter how remote, there will be helicopters, drones and other military craft, some possibly resembling UFO’s. The mission will be to enforce their agenda, most probably on an entire global level. Go against it and the infrared will “sence ya”… Either you will comply, or the lasers will just zap you anyways, in the name of population control.

    I know this is WAY far fetched… but, there are obvious signs that all this is being planned, or so it seems.
    For example, why is it that we have the worst possible nuclear reactors? (all 105 water cooled reactors WILL melt down without a grid or a bucket brigade)… Why does “free trade” allow obvious economic downturn? Why do we hear about excess CO2 (what global warming really is) but NEVER hear about solutions other than “taxing energy” and conserve?
    The solutions are as follows: Liquid fluoride thorium reactors or a similar molten fuel closed cycle (they don’t melt down), re-enact trade tariffs on goods that do not create additional jobs (solar panels made in robotic factories would thus be exempt as they would create many local install jobs), and as for global warming, use the robotic factories to make the best kind of solar (GaAs freznel arrays) and batteries for almost free… And the closed cycle nuclear… except that there would be far more jobs with robotic solar . Virginia’s coal miners would become (just a part of) local solar installers across the land. A max of 2% of Earths land is needed to power FIVE times (or same population at western standards)! Advanced jobs would also come from just building all the robotic factories needed to do so. Efficiency, like electric cars and led lights drastically reduce energy requirements, too.

    Anyways, I’m sure, if I can think of this, the “big thinkers” already have… Thus my conclusion… Prosperity for all people… is NOT what the leaders want.

    The only solution is to prevent the breakdown… There is no resource limitations as long as there is unlimited clean energy. Don’t “let them use global warming as an excuse” to further constrain us (even though it is becoming true)!
    I fear there is not a collective required to transform our apparently planned failure into success.

  333. Rachel D

    Thank you for the list, it gives me more options to think about. My boys are all grown and soon it will be just me, and I am hoping to make a drastic change and get down to just what’s important in life. It could be years off, but at least knowing what areas others found suitable helps me start my plan. Happy New Year =)

  334. Andres Linde

    Hi guys, It will be hard in the USA…Especially after all these executive orders and N DAA in place which have made USA to a police state. You guys allowed it to happen…I do not know about Nicaragua, but I do agree with most of the comment. I did my research and landed in Brazil. This region I found is a paradise – best climate, fertile soil, most properties have water (sits on huge aquifier), friendly people, 1000m above see level (should survive the pole shift) but 2 hours from beautiful sand beaches…large strips of affordable land available. I am originally from Europe which will probably blow to pieces even before the US will…Looking for like minded people. Good luck to us all.

  335. Jim

    Sorry!!! Mountain Home, Arkansas.

  336. Jim

    Best place to live off the grid with lots of nice neighbors who will help each other and plenty of food is central Missouri on The Lake of the Ozarks. Plenty of good water, fish, game, and a nice growing season. Nice place to retire also! I currently live near Seattle, so I’m screwed! Lots of people and no growing season. Only good thing is that we have plenty of water… daily! Hee-hee! I would pick Mountain View, Arkansas for the best community in the country with access to excellent sources of everything to make it for years w/a great community. They’ll even figure a way to still play golf!

  337. AKNICA

    Hi, Seems that a lot of people are looking for the best place to escape to an off the grid home/area, or at least, find a better place to survive in a simpler lifestyle, or if it’s in your mind, any kind of a coming disaster in the U.S.
    Why not consider looking beyond your borders?
    I’ll try to concentrate on living rather than on fear of coming disaster. I know of no place in the U.S. that has even close to nearly all of the ideal conditions needed for sustainable year ’round living as where I live. Why fight hot dry deserts, (little or no water) or below zero weather, (difficult or impossible to produce enough food to survive) or biggest obstacle – high or unatainable prices where you’d like to live, this being a big problem because of cost, taxes, over population or regulations, — Or trying to move half way across the world to a place in which it is difficult to obtain residency because of restrictions or cost of moving,etc.. Desirable places like Australia or New Zealand would be nice, but unless you have $200,000 to $500,000 in those countries just for entry to obtain residency, you can forget it.
    There are very few places I know of in the States that doesn’t have fairly high to outrageous property taxes, not to mention everything else that is taxed. I’m originally from Alaska and there is areas in Alaska that there is no property taxes. Still, the list is very long for all of the taxes you pay in the U.S.
    I live in Nicaragua. First question most people ask is “is it a safe country!” answer is –Yes it is. Good friendly people, —and according to Interpol, one of the safest countries in either North or South America to live in. Also Nicaragua has some of the easiest requirements for residency in Central America. New laws and incentives were passed a few years ago to encourage new immigration.
    It’s a very inexpensive country to live in, especially if you want a nice fertile farm. A farm with perhaps a river running through it can be bought, fee simple, for around $500 to $1,000 per acre depending on where it is.
    Here’s an example of a farm for sale in todays real estate ads:
    18 acres in the best coffee producing area of the country — asking price is $22,000, (no doubt negociable) – electicity at 300 feet away, — good access at 1,000 feet from the PanAmerican highway — cell phone coverage, — springs, — year ’round water and a small river with waterfall,– timber and pasture. Dipilto area.
    Just one of many farms for sale.
    Just about anything grows year ’round. — Good climate,– again depends where, from 70’s to high 80’s, year ’round. In some areas there’s no need for A/C and nowhere is heating needed for your home. I say some areas because in the warmer areas, one might want A/C although a fan usually is enough. Solar ,wind, hydro power is very feasible here and there is next to nothing required for permits/regulations for use.. None for wind or solar as far as I am aware of, and maybe if you are not near a town, you might nor even need a permit for hydro power. Plenty of areas with good useable rivers.
    Property taxes are very low,( my 1,400 sq. ft. house is $98 per year). There’s a low business tax, –and fair to all, a 13% VAT for everyone ,but no other taxes. Even so, things are cheap and price of food in a weekly farmers market doesn’t have a tax on it.. If you had to shop the markets for fresh food ( didn’t have your own gardens), price for local truck farms produce is very cheap. — 2 cents for a banana, 30 cents for a mango, 1(one) dollar for a fresh pinapple, etc. — all your fruits and vegetables are priced very low and are real tasty food, unlike most of the processed, frozen and canned junk food in major markets in the states. There are agricultural items with good, in country sales market and there are some others items that export very well for a farm based business. Other than that there are a lot of good opportunities for a person who is an entrepreneur.
    Electricity is more or less same price as in the states. Fuel for your car in slightly higher than the states, but everything else is cheap.
    Labor and construction costs are very low. Common labor is $5 per day —to around $10 to $5 per day for a block layer or carpenter… –6 inch concrete block are around $o.50 each, large local bricks are around $o.20 each, etc.
    Nicaragua is very poor, and 30-40% of the population (maybe more) live from agricultural production. In the event of chaos in the U.S. with everyone using a gun to get what he needs from his neighbor, I don’t believe this would occur here as most people are already producing the food they need, have no need to rob a neighbor for food, and as opposed to the U.S. , most people here do not have or need arms. You can pretty much forget about having a gun and ammo as I don’t think it’s necessary, although with residency you can get a permit for one.
    Nicaragua is a 3 1/2 hour flight south from Houston, Tx. Not as far as from New York to Los Angeles. So you’re still not far from family.
    Here there’s no need to live in a “community” to afford your place, but that is still possible as it would be anywhere for those who would like it. Here you don’t have to think in terms of “survival” — just a nice peaceful lifestyle is available. I’ve thought of starting a semi- co-0peratively sustainable farm “community” but I haven’t explored how many people might be interested. Perhaps, each person having his own plot of land and maybe sharing his expertise in co-operating with buildings, and a large acreage for co-opertive farming etc. Maybe a van with driver for weekly trips to town and a small truck for produce sales and delivery. More or less along this line of thinking. I’ve been a builder for most of my life and homes are easy to build and cheap enough . All of the farm animals are available here and all are saleable.
    What am I leaving out? Not everyone has the means or ambition to make a move out of the country, but if you can manage to leave, Nicaragua is a pretty good choice.
    With a declining standard of living, fewer jobs and less in the future, poor government education, a national debt that is unsustainable, and which will eventually ruin the country, and incredibly poor leadership, the U.S. is no longer the best place to live in the world.
    I’ve lived in Nicaragua 10 years, in Costa Rica for 15 years, and in Bolivia for 4 years. Nicaragua isn’t perfect, but compared to many places, it’s as close as you’ll get.
    Have any adventurous spirit ? you can do it.
    I’m at I’ll answer some questions that are intelligent.

  338. Pomeranian Pup

    If you’re simply looking for an off-grid place, to raise small livestock, do some personal gardening, I’d suggest parts of East Kentucky, East Tennessee and the mountain terrain of the Virginias, all at higher elevations. The rest of the South is too damned hot & humid to live off-grid without air conditioning, at least for me. If you can stand heat & humidity, Florida has a long growing season and great fishing.

    On the West Coast, Northern California to Prince of Wales Island, Alaska. Inland, go for Northern New Mexico, Colorado & Utah, North West Arkansas & South-West Missourri( the Ozarks region).
    There are many other desirable places I hear, Eastern Oregon/Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Northern Arizona, and so on, but everything I’ve suggested are places I’ve seen first hand.

    If you’re worried about war in the continental US, extensive rioting and other such situations I’d stay in the West, say from the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas/southern Missourri, heading west, avoiding Mid & East Texas due to high population. West Texas though is sparsely populated and they raise a lot of livestock there.

    The isolated mountain homesteads of the Appalachian & Blue Ridge mountains won’t be so isolated when the millions in the cities spread out in search of space & food of the countryside and desperate people will do desperate things, and the odds will be thousands to one if you believe things will go that way. Only place on the East Coast that would be viable in that case would be Maine due to distance and rough weather and because of that it’s not a place you can just migrate to on a whim, you’d need to head there beforehand.

  339. Honey Badger

    Definitely an interesting mix of opinions. Should note that NDAA has been passed, which allows the executive branch, more notably the military, to detain indefinitely US citizens SUSPECTED of terrorism. Keep in mind, there’s a list of requisites on what constitutes a terrorist and one of them is having a weeks worth of food in your house. Our government is criminal. So the mention of FEMA camps isn’t crazy. WW3 is coming and this will be a measure the government takes to assure it’s citizens are all onboard and not liabilities to THEIR cause. This is how the eugenisists of the Georgia Guidestones think, afterall. Either we are with them, or we are with the terrorists. Look familiar? Anyways Google FEMA CAMPS, as I’m sure you shouldn’t attempt a settling near one in these times. Also remember what the government did during Katrina. They turned a STADIUM into a FEMA camp & seized guns everyone in the vicinity.

  340. Sam

    Joe is the type of person I would let starve due to his hatred of freedom and perversion of not only a religion but independent thinking. That and he would run out of his medication that he needs to be on.

  341. Wendy

    I live in the northeast and I’m planning on moving to Kentucky, in Casey County. I’m looking into sustainable pre-fab and/or building a house that could be outfitted with solar panels, etc. Suggestions?

  342. Joe

    None of you will escape the coming fiery wrath, certainly not the spawn of the original settlers.
    You Tube: U.S. OF SATAN by phantomslayer7

    You Tube: ABOMI-NATION by phantomslayer7

    You can run, but you will not escape. The curse of your forefathers is activated.

  343. Nan

    Raise rabbits instead of chickens they’re quieter. Also after an EMP, wood will be the only long term fuel source, bicycles and snowshoes for transportation and living near a military base is the best location.

  344. larry

    Matt, I’m the one who wrote this article and am amazed with what has been said here…I think that the people who are discouraging everybody else and bickering are just afraid. Afraid to try to live off the grid and afraid of those who are. Afraid of being left behind.

  345. E HARDMAN

    hi all ,come practice in africa , have all debated outcomes on hand right now for free

  346. matt

    Wow, I’ve been interested in off the grid living since i got out of the Marine Corps five years ago, but from everything i’ve seen and read you people can’t get along at all. All the petty bickering back and forth. It’s seriously sad.

  347. Jerry

    Greetings – I see Hettinger ND made the list. I guess the premis is valid, I live 26 miles from Hettinger, it isn’t a bad place to live, however you missed the boat, Hettinger is in North Dakota, just a few miles south takes you to South Dakota, a much better place, right now based on State laws and taxes. SD has NO income tax so you have a pretty good savings there, also Sd has Open carry law so you can and many do carry your sidearm in the open all the time. Also a conceled carry permit is much easier to get in SD. I have lived in both states, and worked as a police officer in both states. I chose to move back to SD when I retired because of these advantages. Also living where I do I can take the ONLY advantage in ND that of no tax on food, I can drive a few miles to save on those taxes and enjoy the freedoms in SD. HOWEVER that said, the winters here are HORRID, with heavy snow and temps dropping well below ZERO, I can attest to one night in nearby Bowman ND when the windchill dropped to -100 degrees F. Blizzards are not uncommon so you can expect to see snowbanks that sometimes cover cars and I have even seen it so bad that homes are covered with snow. BUT hunting and fishing are SUPER with plenty of deer, Phesants and other birds, the Pronghorn are plentyfull as are nearly any small game you can imagine. I live 13 miles from a huge man made lake with fish so large that many times frightened scuba divers come out of the water and refuse to return. Land prices are increasing around here and are now selling at a premium because of the great game hunting in the area. Also the Oil field is slowly moving South and with that housing prices will soon grow to beyond most’s income. Right now is the time to move with housing prices still low enough to be affordable. I saw one fellow buy a house with just his credit card a few years back, in fact the three bedroom home I purchased fifteen years ago I picked up for 15 thousand bucks, have it paid for in full now. I am considering putting it on the market for just twice that price at 30 thousand cash.

  348. Tanya

    Looking into moving to Philly for graduate school (yes, Philly, I know it’s crazy) I have discovered that there are three nuclear power plants within 50 miles and 10 within 200 miles. There is a great concentration in the mid-Atlantic states (and very few states that don’t have any at all) that I never knew (I live in Denver) I would urge everyone to check out the proximity to any plants before they move. If the power grid goes down, there will be nuclear incidents all over the place. We are already living on borrowed time.

  349. Johnnyb93

    I am rather glad that my location is nowhere near anyplace on this list.

  350. Veggie girl

    Going green and being involved in the eco friendly way of living is what will help.
    technically our ancestors went without and did just fine.
    think of your children or grandkids future….
    Go green!!!

  351. al R

    Look out for the hordes. Urban masses who are storming the high desert. Makes me laff.

  352. telegramsam

    my apologies for the typos, the keys stick on my phone pad nd sometimes jumbles it all up.

  353. telegramsam

    sorry George, invalidating anyone because they have different infomation and experience than you does not make someone nuts. Talk to some hurricane Katrina victims who had to spend time onin the FEMA camps.

  354. Ozo

    I have been looking in NM and AZ higher up.

    Also NV land is cheap enough Very pretty in NM also NV. Hardly any people off grid is very appealing to me but would need a part time income source of some kind to maintain long term sustainability, I would think.

    Any thoughts ?

  355. Matt

    West Liberty is home to the Eastern Kentucky Correctional Complex. -I’m just sayin….maybe not a good idea when TSHTF. Cross this one off my list.

  356. Ozo

    Some good thoughts here some not so much to be expected I guess I am looking to go off grid ASAP
    I have my eyes open for small property that I can build on I have all the building skills plus some I have built over 25 houses in my life can do all phases have researched new ideas out there for self sustainability saved $$ just need right place would like to find a place in north west Montana or Idaho over to Spokane area if anyone knows of good spot for sale email me
    With info
    Not to sure about a forced FEMA camp Wow
    But can’t really say that there isn’t a food dist center that you really have no way out of due to supplies or lack of
    Stay positive people

  357. Sadie

    You might want to consider taking Sierra Blanca, Texas off the list. Look it up.

  358. Neli

    I like Nora’s posting. That is exactly how I lived when I was a child and a teenager; people would have the front door ajar all day long without being afraid of being robbed, etc. Children playing on the streets and if one got hurt someone would always would be available to help. And yes, my mother sometimes used to trade some sugar for some lard or whatever the need. Other times a neigboor would give away greens for free. But now even there most of this is gone; there are refrigerators, TVs in every house and crime is creeping up….we, humans, are the ones who spoill good things most of the time. We need to learn to live and respect others and every living think on this planet if we want to have peace and a good life.

  359. Neli

    Well, I am trying to convince my husband to buy some land and move to the country…as I look at the news and the lack of jobs it is a “must” to be self-reliable. Land is not for the weak souls because it is hard work. Living in the country or in a community that does not depend on the supermarkets is “work”, “good will”, “guts” and the willingness to face problems as they come along and trust in God. I was raised without a refrigerator because it was a luxury back then (during, sixties, seventies in some parts of Europe). I think I will better off going to pick up eggs from under my own chickens than to rely on someones pay check (which is nowadays very dubious that it will still come endlessly). I am think about Pennsylvania or NY but I really would like a place with a mild climate (I don’t like heat) and a piece of land with a spring, creek, some sort of water body. Any suggestions? I would appreciate any good and viable ideias. Thank you for the blog.

  360. George

    Interesting info, but too many nuts here. Good rule – if you ever hear someone mention “FEMA detention camps” you can ignore them, because they’ve lost touch with reality.

  361. Richard Inglis

    Hi – I like your site. Thought I might throw my two cents in, if that’s OK, about possible places – my suggestion is a bit out of left field though. I’d say anywhere in continental North America wouldn’t be far enough away from the “scavenging hoards” in the event of an “event”. Perhaps perpetually snowed in places very far north might be overlooked, but the technical difficulties in surviving in such places would make them pretty undesirable. A less densely populated place (but which is far enough away from the “hoard” to make it workable) is probably needed. But I don’t think anywhere in the Americas fits that bill, imho. Everywhere (except up a snow-bound mountain) is accessible from a well populated city. You’d be hard pressed finding anywhere that didn’t have a large group of people holed up within a couple of hours travel in any direction. Not remote enough for me. For really remote (but still livable) you need somewhere like Australia, imo. Just about the least densely populated yet still inhabitable place in the world (it has 7.8 people per sq mile compared to say, the UK (660 per sq mile) or the US (83 per sq mile), it is geographically isolated as a country (it’s an island surrounded by wide seas with only tiny islands near by except for PNG in the far north which is virtually unpassable as the Japanese discovered in WW2) , it is relatively far away from other populated places (such as SE Asia which is a 10 hour flight away or a boat journey of several days) with areas the size of Texas that are virtually devoid of people but well able to support self sufficient populations (ie not deserts). In the northern parts, especially, there is plenty of rainfall and good places to grow things (as well as some of the largest amounts of sunlight anywhere). Only reason there are so few people in these places is that, historically, the major cities have all congregated at the other end of the country so all the farming is there. No farmer wants to live 5000 miles or more from his market (even though there is ideal land for farming in these regions). For example have a look at the Kimberly region in Western Australia (look it up on google). It is entirely surrounded by huge deserts (ie thousands of miles wide) on the land side. The closest land mass across the treacherous Timor Sea is Indonesia (about 1400 miles away). It is one of 9 regions in Western Australia and the Kimberley alone covers an area of almost 165,000 sq miles (ie slightly larger than California and about 3 quarters the size of Texas). The region is fed by the Ord River which was constructed to encourage farming in the region. It didn’t bring the farmers (the place is still too remote) but it means anyone moving there has enough fresh water for anything. It has one popular village on the sea (Broome) which was founded by Asian pearl fishers about 150 years ago. It’s attracts tourists and miners and has a population of about 15,000 – which is almost half the population of the entire region (don’t forget we’re talking about an area larger than all of California) which is 41,000. No other town has more than 2000 persons (and many of those populations are transitory – they’re miners who usually live thousands of miles and fly in for work). Getting a visa might be more of a problem but if you were really looking to go off grid (and you had an eye on possible post-event survival strategies) it would be worth looking into. Bit of trivia – it’s no surprise to me that one of the earliest post-apocalypse Hollywood movies – On the Beach from 1959 starring Greg Peck and Ava Gardner – is set in Australia – it was virtually the only place left untouched in that story. (btw – I am an Australian resident myself having moved here many years ago – I live in a small seaside community that values self-sufficiency and am working toward going “off grid” possibly in the Kimberly or somewhere similar in Oz). Sorry if this post is too rambling and long. Don;t get on the internet all that often these days. Thought my first hand experiences might be of passing interest (I have visited the Kimberley region several times to size it up for just such a move)

  362. telegramsam

    Any thoughts about NM or CO?

  363. telegramsam

    Oops figment personnell wont help you but to put you in a camp. East coast has more nuke reactors than u can shake a fist at. The northwest is also close to some reactors and volcanos. Yellowstone is ready to blow any minute. . Google US nuclear sites map and stay away from those locales. NM AZ NEV is looking better and better. Though desert is not a climate I like, its perfect to build an earthsheltered home and an underground greenhouse. Raineaterharvesting

  364. telegramsam

    Oops..higherer plateaus with forest, like Taos. Though those places have military bases everywhere, it means nothing in terms of personal safety. If the shit hits the fan and martial law is called US foment personl

  365. telegramsam

    Im in CA, and want out. My prerequisites are: above rivers, dashes, and dams. Earthquakes and drastic changes can cause rivers to run backwards for miles wreaking having and drowning communities. Along any coast is subject to total immersion. NV, NM, AZ though desert can be great if you seek high

  366. Bark

    I agree with Medio Weg. YOU can make the changes with your purchasing choices. Boycott Chinese goods, Bank of America and similar things that are destructive to the USA. think for yourself and don’t let either party tell you that you have to follow their agenda. Our environment is collapsing but we also need less government and constitutional freedoms. Check out my forum by googling Barkforum….

  367. Christopher Brown

    I want to live off the grid! However, I don’t want to just right into it buying this and that without knowing what I’m doing. Does anyone know a family or small group willing to take an outsider who wants to learn and possibly build close by? Email me please at Thanks! And, the article was great and very informative

  368. Medio Weg

    This site was interesting to look at from time to time, but it appears to have been taken over by people from both extremes. The “hippies” claim the earth will be destroyed in a couple years by evil corporations. The survivalists frantically stock up on food and supplies waiting for the end of the world, when a nuclear Holocaust destroys all urban areas in the United States and motorcycle gangs rove the roads raping and pillaging as if they were Vikings out of the tenth century.

    I am not saying bad things won’t happen in the future. Horrific things have happened since before human beings were even advanced enough to influence more than their own tribe, possibly since before we were evolved enough to form tribes.

    Shakespeare said, “extreme fear can neither fight nor fly,” if (or when, if that is what you prefer) the world as we know it does come to an end it won’t matter so much where you live or how much you’ve prepared (although you may have an advantage because of this) what will matter is what you do and the decisions you make. If you spend your entire life terrified of some far off event you will be paralyzed in the present, when it matters.

    Instead of hiding in the woods with your AK-47 or your AR-15 perhaps you should get off you high horse, join the real world and make a difference. Do something to prevent the future you believe is coming.

    Don’t just stand there. Do something.

  369. Stephen Moeller

    We have an excellent house on 160 acres in rural souther Oklahoma. Reasonably prices. Artesian water on the property. You could take the house off ther grid with a little work. Excellent area for hunting and foraging.

    Check out the house on the website.

  370. barbie_ranger

    I just happened to come across this web page……what in the world are you people talking about??? Everybody speaks as if there’s a war about to break out or something…Please inform me why everyone is talking like this,yall scaring the crap outta me!

  371. Brie217

    I think the Northwest is best. Plenty of water, good land for growing things and in MT and ID they pretty much leave you alone. Also, MT has a circuit breaker in their property tax codes.

  372. Off The Grid Kid

    Wow. This looks like a good site for off the grid info. But the comments are surprising. For me living off the grid isn’t about being prepared for something like society breaking down or anything. But living a less stressful, greener and more rewarding life. Some people’s comments on welfare people wanting to take there stuff. Paranoia? I got mine, now get the hell off my lawn attitude? Most off the grid communities are about cooperation, sharing, helping thy neighbor. You know, the kinda stuff those same folks might find in there bible. And its these things that would probably carry us through any type societal break down. Good luck anyone thinking about living this type of life style. But try to think of other reasons other why one might want to get away from the rat race other than the sh!t hit the fan scenario. OTG KID

  373. BeTrueSeekTruth

    As far as living off the grid goes: People have to get to your place first before they can raid your land or pantry. The vast majority of people will be gathered into FEMA internment camps by one ruse or another. Those local to your area who aren’t prepared will be few if you live in a rural area and most of those will migrate to government sponsored detention areas to be vaccinated for a sleeping bag an bowl of GMO soup.

  374. Rick

    Why are there no Alaskan properties listed in your list, Just Wondering ?

  375. Neil

    Howdy,I left the mess up north a little early.I had my parameters.Since I used to raise horses in Arizona.I wanted to keep that lifesyle,I also like mountain views,Since I always vacationed in the Caribbean why that would also be nice.So after many fact finding trips I discovered Panama.Eleven years ago I bought about 25 acres of an old banana plantation/cattle ranch.Im 8 miles by boat from the mainland.It took 3 years to build, my place.Lots of trial and error,and logistics problems of building on a remote island.I have a rain forest in my back yard everything grows,and I dont even have to water.In front of my house is the Caribbean ocean plenty of fish,damn near jump on the line.I have citrus,bananas,coconuts,papya watermellon,etc etc.I make my own power,using a hybrid,solar,wind,and a diesel generator system and lots of batteries.Collect my own water and treat sewage in a septict tank,leach field system.Theres 3 homes,and a common area with pool and thatched roof dinning and entertainment facility.I have satellite communication,for both internet and phone.My neighbors are stone age indians,with hand carved wooden boats.So when you guys talk living off the grid in virginia,or tenn,or just about anywhere in the US for survival reasons.I just kinda chuckle.Check out built it.Its been working for about 7 years,with all the comforts of in city living,and Im 2 miles from the end of the earth Id be happy to share my knowledge.Its hard work living well off the grid.Im in my 60s now,and just had some pretty serious spine surgery.So if anyones looking for the ultimate survival compound,this is it.Id be willing to sell out to the right person.I need to down size on another island.Panama for those geographicaly challenged is about a 2.5 hour flight south of Miami.I believe with the current situation in the US its probably too late to build something this complex in the time youll have.Dont wait,.Good luck

  376. Steve

    Been working for an American contractor here in Iraq off & on since 2007. Im 60 years old thinking of building off grid when I get home, it never entered my mind to become a survivalist, dont think it is possible,or at least the quality of life would make such a mindset untenable, if you are attempting this without community.

  377. peter

    The real “enemy” are those who live in fear. How do you react to events or people? With love and compassion or fear? Fear manifests itself as anger, greed, sadness and even “patrotism” and “extreme faith” (as in organized religion) . I’ve seen too many people retreat into thier shacks or into thier McMansions with the same result—distrust, envy, greed and depression. It all stems from fear—fear of not being “right”, fear that someones pie is bigger, fear that comes from within. I myself sold my McMansion and moved to Northern New Mexico, bought 20 acres near Chama and run a B&B in Santa Fe. Hope to build a strawbale off-the-grid and learn to create and not consume so much. Live without stress, without fear and without putting a priority on owning things. Its not what you own its what you do that defines you. If that means you/those folks with lots of guns can kill me and take my stuff—OK—I’d rather live in inner peace for a few years than to survive in a hole until I die of ego poisoning. All this from a guy who used to sell consulting services for a global firm. Things are changing.

  378. paradigm shift

    someone says re: northeast: “It is cheap to live there and the climate is not bad.”

    you could have previously said the same for south except for now due to manmade climate change they are experiencing NONSTOP unrelenting climate change disasters…can’t say they don’t deserve it…don’t forget it is cost prohibitive to live on coast now, you can’t afford prop insurance and you will probably get cancer (and you will be on your own)….it is never ever big oil’s fault.

    Try to live somewhere which isn’t totally attracting bad karma due to being denialists. record tornadoes, record drought, record fires, record flooding doesn’t discriminate.

  379. paradigm shift

    how is WV on list? many have cancer from blowing off mountaintops and polluted water. those who are educated are now protesting in WV..not exactly peaceful ‘off the grid’ living ….are we looking for still pristine places or just blowing smoke? what is next? toxic garbage dump NJ?
    or PA which is being sued by MD for toxic hydrofracturing ruining streams so you won’t be able to fish? many places you can’t hunt deer due to wasting disease etc…most of this site just seems to be where land is ‘cheap’. I heard land is cheap next to yucca mtn nuclear dump…you can survive (and glow in the dark).

  380. paradigm shift

    south is underwater…southwest is on fire..north and northeast you will freeze…maybe northwest….which is ‘coincidentally’ most environmentally friendly ‘hippies’….

    ironically most ‘modern’ folks can’t survive on own at all; I am a product of generation who grew up destined for school and grad garbage an finds office life meaningless…and tedious (trying to be tactful)…we need to stop labeling and start doing…or future is sh*( period. we are in it together (except for radical rights)….they hate everybody.

    • Wretha

      Wow paradigm shift, I’ve heard of the glass half empty, it sounds like yours is shattered, or has been stolen… BTW I’m one of those right wingers, actually more a conservative with libertarian leanings, if you must apply labels, I’m a leave me alone and I’ll leave you alone type of person, hope that doesn’t sound like hate. I do agree that we are ALL in it together. I sincerely hope you are able to see the good things in life too, it’s a shame to go around just seeing the negatives.


  381. Wild NW

    I’m actually shocked the NW didn’t make the top ten. Eastern Washington, Idaho, Montana are great places and have some very remote areas to get off grid.

  382. gridster

    Why wasn’t Arizona on the list? Just wondering?

  383. Angela

    If the “event” happens to be nuclear, I would not want to live anywhere near the NorthEast. Take a look at the Projected Nuclear Fallout Maps on Google.

  384. azgal777

    I am a Christian ranch gal.
    Would like to buy some acreage
    and be self-sufficient….Have
    been storing up food for over a
    year and guns…..and ammo.
    Need a partner that would enjoy
    farming and being self sufficient….
    I am a young 61, know how to
    cook and can and sew with a treadle
    machine….love tractors, target shooting and freshly plowed fields!
    anyone interested just email me and
    we can get acquainted!

  385. TEGman

    I live in another part of West Virginia, and I want to add two more reasons to consider any part of this state if you are looking for a safe, secure place to live off the grid.

    First, the people who inhabit this state are already equipped with the basic skills needed to survive almost anything. Most men here are hunters (and some of the women, too), and gardening for survival (not just for a few prize tomatoes to garnish a salad) is still a known albeit not widely practiced skill here.

    The people who live here are mostly descended from the original European settlers who arrived in the late 1700s. The difficult geography and limited economic opportunity all but ensured a net emigration from the state from that point forward, except for the few decades at the end of the last and the beginning of this century when men arrived to work the coal mines and timber jobs that were booming at the time.

    Consequently, the people who live here are, like their ancestors, rather tough, but that is not to say “rough”. Consider that in spite of having one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country, an admittedly low number of adults with college degrees, a sparse rural police force, and one of the highest if not THE highest number of guns per capita of any state in the Union (one of our fifty-five counties is known to be the home of more guns than there are people in the entire state!), West Virginia also enjoys one of the lowest crime rates in the country (although it is increasing in the Eastern Panhandle counties closer to DC). This, I think, speaks volumes for people who have met the challenges of their environment by learning to take care of themselves and their neighbors.

    Don’t get me wrong, people here don’t think of themselves as survivalists, but in some sense that is in fact what they always have been. They were survivalists long before the word was coined.

    Another reason to consider this state is financial stability. I am in a strong position to speak to this point since I serve in the state legislature where I am a minority member of the House Finance Committee. As you watch the repeating news stories about financial chaos in California, Illinois, New York, and the other “big” states, consider that this small, poor, rural Appalachian state is one of five that is not running a budget deficit this year. Who knows what the future holds, but so far so good.

    There are several important reasons for this. First, we have an abundance of natural resources. Whether you love or hate coal, we mine it, and it provides a strong economic foundation for the state even as the rest of the country teeters on the edge of insolvency. In addition, most of the state is sitting on top of the southern reach of the enormous Marcellus natural gas play, and we expect activity in the development of that resource for decades to come. Some people hate extractive industries, but the revenues and jobs they generate keep this state afloat.

    Also, I should not ignore the fact that West Virginia has been frugal for the past twenty years. Two decades ago we bound ourselves to make our pension funds actuarially sound. We prohibited ourselves from adding benefits unless they could be funded in the period the obligations were incurred. We created a professional, nonpolitical board to oversee the investment of these funds (after a rather notorious debacle that cast us hundreds of millions), and we set earnings targets that were lower and more conservative than many other states.

    Sure, we lost money in 2008, but most of our retirement plans are still at least 80% funded! The worst is still the teachers retirement system, which is only 55% funded, but consider that it was only 20% funded just over ten years ago!

    A few years ago we tackled a $4.5 billion unfunded liability in a publicly operated workers’ comp system by privatizing it, filling the financial gap, and cleaning up some administrative messes. Now, just a few years later, the unfunded liability on the “old system” has been whittled down to less than $1.5 billion (we expect to eliminate it entirely by 2015 or therebouts), and the “new” system is a system of private insurance!

    We have other liabilities such as OPEB, of course, but I am optimistic that we will find non-tax-based solutions to these as well: consider that the state itself owns more than 500,000 acres of land sitting on – you guessed it – Marcellus natural gas worth as much as $5000 per acre in up-front lease fees plus additional royalties for decades! One school system in the northern part of the state received over $1 million for the mineral rights under one high school alone. How’s that for an alternative to levy-based funding? What do you think we could do with the money from hundreds of thousands of acres of gas leases? In West Virginia, taxes are not the only economic option.

    But how does the financial solvency of a state government affect your individual choice of location? Consider the results at the taxpayer level: while Illinois is hiking taxes through the roof, we actually lowered taxes this year. It wasn’t much, we lowered the food tax from 3% to 2%, but this followed several years of business tax reductions AND bond rating upgrades. The state’s fiscal soundness means that necessary services will be provided (maybe not Cadillac services), but you can still sleep soundly knowing that your taxes are not likely to jump into the stratosphere in the near future.

    Incidentally, while some publications compare our tax structure unfavorably to other states, they ignore two important factors: our taxes are going down while others are going up, and our real estate property taxes are already among the lowest in the nation! Think about that last one while you’re looking for land.

    So, to wrap this up, I can’t speak to Pennsboro specifically. I’m sure its a fine place, but I’ve never been there. I would encourage you to consider my part of the state, Greenbrier County and the surrounding counties of Monroe, Summers, and Pocahontas.

    The topography here is a little different from the rest of the state – we are classified as rolling plateaus. The area is agricultural, with just a little coal mining activity on the Western side of Greenbrier County (this county is over 1000 square miles, though). Much of the region is pristine, held within the boundaries of a national forest. Recreational options include a ski resort, white water rafting in another neighboring county (which will also soon be the home of the Boy Scouts’ national Jamboree!), commercial caves and numerous wild spelunking options, and many miles of bike trails.

    The area is very rural, but transportation into the region includes an Interstate (not the most heavily travelled, though), twice weekly Amtrak service from New York, DC, and Chicago, and an airport with regional air service and a runway that can accommodate the largest jets.

    (I was once part of a greeting party that greeted President Bush as he deboarded Air Force One on the runway. I had never met a President before, and I didn’t know what to say, so I asked him if his daughter Barbara was still single. There were secret service guys everywhere. Good thing he had a sense of humor!)

    The area is socioeconomically diverse – with a population that ranges from very poor to very rich (including one guy who might be a billionaire except that you can’t tell by looking at his house – a comfortable, middle-class dwelling that would make any schoolteacher proud – and his annual Christmas lighting is better than the Griswolds!).

    My county (Greenbrier County, population 35,000) is home of the Greenbrier Hotel, a world-class resort that is now expanding under local ownership (that possible billionaire I mentioned above) after decades under CSX. As a result, in 2010 Greenbrier County was one of the strongest counties in the state for employment GROWTH.

    The Greenbrier was once home to a cold-war era government bunker (it was top-secret, and everybody around here knew to keep their mouths shut about it!). If this place was considered safe enough for the U.S. Congress (after all, everybody around here can keep a secret), don’t you think it might be safe enough for you?

    Incidentally, the Greenbrier county seat of Lewisburg also offers more social options than most towns of its size (pop. 3,500). The town is home of Greenbrier Valley Theatre, which is the state’s official professional theatre. It is also home to one of only four performing arts Carnegie Halls in the world, a medical school, and several other arts organizations. This year it was selected by the readers of Budget Travel magazine as “The Coolest Small Town in America”, although there are lots of other cool small towns in the region. Not that any of this might matter if you’re just looking to get off the grid, but at least you won’t be bored here while you’re waiting for TEOTWAWKI.

  386. einzel

    Was wondering why Kansas was not considered. I have been looking for land myself and just of the mind that I have no skill in looking

  387. Michelle

    Just in the Pennesboro, WV neck of the woods recently (I was in Cairo) and was thinking it would make a decent place to settle off the grid. Right along the American Discovery Trail as well, which makes for a nice bike path between several towns without much worry of car traffic.

  388. Sandy

    Every single one of you could be off grid in 60 days. You just have to know how to do it. I started over 2 years ago – google the word “vanabode”.

  389. Alrod53

    KM, Sorry to hear that that happend to your nephew, But the fact is that you really have to do your research on where you move to when going off the grid and be ready to defend ones self. Also as off grid often means away from the immediate help of the police..

  390. KM

    Southwest Oklahoma is colloquially known as the “septic triangle” by medical professionals in OKC. The vast majority of people there grocery shop at the local Wal_art for a diet consisting of processed sodium and fat-laden junk. This leaves the majority of people quite overweight with rampant health issues. The area is also overrun with meth labs and anti-government wackos. My nephew was murdered in the area just a few years ago by a man who had been in prison multiple times, once for manslaughter then for second degree murder. He didn’t want the state water resource engineers on his property. They were simply running water lines to rural areas using the state-owned easements on the roadside as is their right. They were doing surveys when the nutjob accused them of using the scope to spy on him! This guy shot and killed my nephew, a neighbor who was talking to my nephew, and seriously injured a heavy equipment operator. That is the kind of people who inhabit the area in the rural areas of SE Oklahoma. Sure, there are decent people around there, but they are few and far between. The fact is, it really isn’t a place for someone new to just move in and make friends.

  391. Liam

    Hasn’t anyone read about the Madrid fault? This is the one that caused the Mississippi run backwards and turned a forest into a lake, with a series of 4 quakes over 8.0. No, you don’t want to survive in Arkansas. That is a geologically unstable area. The recent quakes are not from drilling.

    Basically nearly every place you chose will have pluses and minuses. The Pacific Northwest is a popular area that has many survival properties. It is cheap to live there and the climate is not bad. There are places near the Canadian border with one route east/west that can easily be blocked by a community, plenty of food–salmon runs, mild climate, but it has the danger of volcano’s. At least the westerly winds will push the ash away–unless something blows right next to you. Take a look at a map of the hot springs in the US. That makes most of the west look dangerous–but I think people are more dangerous, and I live in the northeast.
    So decide for yourself what the risks are. Earthquake, Solar Flare, Tzunami, Flood, Drought, Famine, or Plague–or other people. Decide if you want to survive where you are or run and hide. In my opinion as retreat is a good thing to have as a backup, but don’t leave your home. Make it safe. I’ll keep my home and I’ll be prepared to fight to keep it, and I have lots of friends who can help if needed. Don’t put all your valuable in your retreat. Have a way to bring them with you when and if you move. Just leave essentials that don’t matter there.
    My back up option is a 46′ sloop which can support me and my family for a long time and take us to a food source and travel by water. My other backup option is a pickup and camper with a big fuel tank. I’m thinking about putting a big tank on one of my trailers so I have transcontinental range.
    Another thing to think about: communications. If you don’t know what is going on around you, you won’t make good decisions. Do not count of TV, the Internet, or telephones. Get a Ham radio license and a radio for every vehicle. I have five identical radios preprogrammed with the same frequencies, all on slide mounts, so i can reconfigure any vehicle in seconds. Handheld HT’s are better than cell phones if the phones are out and you are on foot or bicycle. Definitely have a base station–I use a mobile radio run off a 12 Volt power supply with a switch to go to Batteries if the power is out. Put your oldest family member in charge of holding the fort. At our house, there is always someone home and we have lots of dogs to alert us to strangers. Have backup radio’s secured in a metal cage to prevent damage due to EMP or a Solar Flare. Then you will be the one with a radio that works, along with the other ‘smart people’.
    Of course everyone talks about having back up food supplies. I don’t have that yet, but I’m giving it some thought and will start buying in the near future as things are starting to look bad around the world with with our economy. Bulk foods like rice and beans are cheap. Sealed in nitrogen–they should last a long time. Things like salt, sugar, flour, etc, are easy enough to store–get a sealing machine. Powders eggs too. I ‘m thinking about building a chicken coup. With all hens your neighbors don’t need to know what you have and feed is cheap too.

    Finally, guns. My friend tells me he read about a theory that .22 bullets will be a form of currency if things get really bad. I agree. So will guns. I have cheap guns that I’m thinking about selling. They will be worth more if the shit hits the fan–for family members if you want to be legal. I’ll probably sell them and get trim down to what I really need for my family.

    Get yourself a pistol–I think the only choices is a 1911 Colt .45 ACP, a Mossberg 590 12 gauge shotgun, and a Ruger 10/22 rifle. Better yet get two of each so that you have a weapon for everyone in your family. I have reloading equipment, because I’m a target shooter, plus I have 2000 rounds of .45, 950 rounds of 12 gauge in bird shot, buck shot and slugs, and enough .22’s to last be the rest of my life. Have a secure place to store these that the cops can’t find–they can and often do take guns away from honest citizens. If you don’t need them. Fine. It is cheap insurance to have hidden just in case. Things have gotten so bad that many of my non-gun friends are buying guns–simply out of concern for their personal safety. If you have any doubts look at the riots that have happened everywhere, the home invasions, murder and worse.
    If you have a long term food supply, water/cistern, energy, wind and solar, a strong (concrete) house, metal storm shutter, tools, a generator, firewood, heavy equipment to block off driveways and access, surveillance systems, and friends you can and will survive. I’m getting off the subject.

    My main point is. Dig in where you are, have supplies to last for years and trade goods. Think about a back-up bug out option, and it doesn’t have to be a house somewhere you don’t want to live, it can be a trailer and a group of like minded friends. A location in a national forest.

    Any place to you don’t live in, will be vandalized and your property stolen if you are not there. ATV’s can go anywhere.

    If you want to pick a safe place to live. My choice would be close to a military base. These will be the last places to lose power, law and order, and they will have resources.

  392. Voltkernok

    Thank you very much for this list, I’ve been put back on my feet recently this past night on my focus in life. I want to work with and live with nature, I want to be creative, I want to build an off grid community, this has been influential. Also, if any Off-Griders in Texas don’t mind a visit of your off grid shack, I’d love to learn.

  393. Woody

    I would like to recommend a book for you all to read. You’ll love it.

    By James Wesley Rawles

    Nick – I just picked up you book today and visited the website before beginning the read. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it.

    Woody (from one of the best hideouts off the grid in the country, Wyoming – if the people don’t kill ya the weather will)

  394. Baruch Atta

    Thanks for the article and HEY EVERYONE i’m looking for a place to live without the world going to hell in a handbasket. I agree with Nora that quality of life is the most important, and friends make the quality of life. Cheap land, nice environment, and all is nice, but give me friends or give me death!

  395. Nora

    Thank you for the article. I am always looking to a simpler life in place off the beaten path where you don’t have to lock your door and you know all your neighbors and you trade a cup of sugar for a piece of the cake. I would not reserve it just for survival but live there now for an improved quality of life.

  396. Pinuccio

    It makes sense not to reveal the best places for survival. Otherwise, you’ll have a Chicago in no time. And the equalocracy is the reason why things are violently imploding in the first place.

  397. Nick Rosen

    Thanks Jo – I gather you are from the area around Culver City, Utah -which actually is mentioned in the above piece. Of course where exactly you are from is your own secret. But it might be more generous of you to give some positive info abot the area andadvise others where to go – not your bit obviously.

    Anyway, looking at a map I can see that there are all sorts of things to recommend it, good water, low prices, good land.

  398. Jo

    You didn’t mention the best place of all. Frankly I am glad, I would rather not be ran out by those ill prepared because they had read on a blog that, that was the place to be. Thank you very much for the locations to avoid though.

  399. Blaze1

    Just starting my research. West Virginia seems like a good spot. I will check into Pennsboro. Thanks for posting all the helpful info.

  400. Alrod53

    Cares, Obviosuly you have not been here or only seen the big city from an airport or something, Because ot is nothing like that here. We have many places that are still untouched and great places to live away from people. And a lot of our United States still allows you to build what we want to live in without any regulations..And we can have any guns we want…Ha HA

  401. Cares

    Haha…if I were in the US I think I would be making plans to leave the country not just the city area. Your whole country is way to crowded to realistically escape to anywhere, anywhere will become crowded very quickly with everybody leaving somewhere else.
    Someone hiding behind every tree or bush from everybody else hiding behind the other trees and bushes.

  402. mainah

    I used to own 20 acres in southeast OK. My biggest problem was locals dumping their trash in the creek on my property.
    Also, be sure to check out the soil before you buy. I didn’t and found out later that some oil company dumped salt water from wells onto the property. No wonder nothing would grow.
    Lots of Armadillos and Copperhead snakes to.
    Now I live in Maine. Short growing seasons but the summers are fab.

  403. Alrod53

    Well Carl, I guess that you haven’t read comment #12. And what will happen is that anyone on welfare will loaded up and taken to a FEMA camp where they will be provided for and anyone roaming the streets will be picked up and taken their also as marshall law will be in place. Anyone that manages to elude that that thinks they are going to go looking to rob the preppers will be in for a big surprise..Please refer to comment #12…An angry red neck defending his family is a force not to take lightly..Ha..

  404. Rob Chipman

    If you’re worried about scavenging hordes, buy somewhere in Canada, especially BC. It’s far enough away from hordes to leave you in peace.

  405. Carl Ajemian

    Fellas and Gals,
    It goes something like this, anywhere you are:
    Week 1: Food and hardware stores are cleaned out. No shipments are received.
    Week 2: Lawlessness in the streets as the unprepared look for a meal.
    Week 3: Even emergency food supplies are exhausted. Provisional government takes power. Utility power and gas is cut.
    Week 4: Search parties go house-to-house looking for food caches. Provisional government rules that all citizens must turn in food and fuel for the common good. Punishment for hoarding is death.
    Week 5: Search parties go house-to-house in county and surrounding areas looking for food and fuel. Resistance is met by lethal force. Solar panels and wind turbines are disassembled for re-deployment by Provisional government.

    In the end, the mob will be at your door to take your stuff. This is a scenerio I don’t know the answer to. Good luck, all.

  406. Curtis

    I just found your site the other day. I saw the top 10 places to survive. We are planning to do just that and we bought close to Pennsboro, Wv. I had a good feeling about it when we bought , but never thought it would be 4th in a top ten survey. By the way we call it ” Almost Heaven” , when were there !

  407. DMSloan

    Plan to build a self sufficient beach house, wind and solar powered. Water well, and cistern. Propane tank with back up generator and live on retirement. Home will be built on stilts, and wind proof to 150 mph winds. A small garden and insulated freezer, combined with sailboat for fishing. Will still need a jeep and gasoline, but will mostly live off the land.

  408. Ozarker

    Oregon County, MO, is the place to be. If needed you can grow anything you need. We have a big cattle ranch, and we know that someday, probably after hubby and I are dead, our son will have to deal with city dwellers looking for food and shelter. It will be a fight to the finish. We can’t supply what they need then. If they want that assurance, they must start building it now. I worry what life will be for descendants.

  409. Alrod53

    The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personel saftey. Is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself..

  410. PrepLady

    WOW! To each his own!!! When it comes to prepping and being prepared you must decide where you and your family can survive! Take into account that there are going to be people around you who did not read the writing on the wall! So, you prep for you and them in the sense that you must be prepared to defend your stuff or share! You and only you can decide that, but at least let us discuss the options together without being judgmental or rude. Do we not have enough of that already? One can only pray for those not prepared and understand the limits of the big city and the advantages and disadvantages of living in either the city, country or a remote bug out location. Ultimately it is your choice!!!!!!!!

  411. daniel

    you’re all fools! lol…sorry. but really this attitude you guys have with each other is what will kill us. And you guys aren’t even down to earth with these schemes. you’re going to ‘buy’ land? that’s an illusory idea that dissolves with everything else. You’re going to hold up a land deed when hungry bands of scavengers(/everyone ) search and consume anything to survive?
    the only way out is up.

  412. Zeus

    What about Baltimore, Maryland? You can live on the streets there and actually make money with a paper cup!

  413. frann

    I bought 40 acres close to Terlingua, TX for 16,000. Beautiful if you like the desert..

  414. Alrod53

    Bill, That is why we are getting ready now..It’s called prepping..Do a google search on Nasa solar storms and lets hear what you think after that.)

  415. Alrod53

    Sure you will survive in Chicago.I was born and raised in a small farming suburb of Chicago.I got out 25 years ago and the city was tough then. What are you going to do when their is no electric to pump the gas to run those cars and trains and people can’t go to the grocery store and buy stuff to eat. Just a thought.)

  416. mervo

    Bill, tell that to the Amish. You’re logic is flawed- self sustaining communities that support each other will be the winners, not those in the cities fighting off the Golden Hordes.

  417. Kriket

    I loved the list. Thank you. We knew there was decent land prices to be had in ‘our area’ Ohio-KY-VW
    Anyone who things surviving in Chicago is a good idea has never been to Chicago.

  418. Bill

    Lists like this are too arbitrary, and frankly, the assumptions used by this writer are flawed.

    “Survival” of some transient event requires totally different resources than building a sustainable life and community that can adapt to rapid declines in global energy production, which have already precipitated much of today’s financial collapse.

    Cheap land is certainly not the best criteria to look for when you’re looking at a long term reality that is far more like 1850 than the oil era we all believe is normal. A city like Chicago will survive longer than some newbie “off-gridder” in the sticks because of its geographic advantages – nearby food growing capability, rail and lake shipping for heavy commerce, etc., and because a critical mass of skilled people will be able to continue within a local economy.

    If you’re planning to “survive” the coming years, remember that once things as they are collapse they will never, ever be rebuilt. If you can’t get it locally, you won’t be getting it. There’s always a grid requirement – humans survived as a species because of the grids we naturally form, the social community grids of community.

    Banishment – going “off-grid” – was before oil a death sentence.

  419. Alrod53

    Because the prices on land are a bit more expensive per acre in those areas and taxes are high..I have friends in those areas.

  420. MICHEL



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