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	<title>Comments on: $600 gets your house on solar power</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/</link>
	<description>Microgeneration, Fuel Cells, Environment, inverters, free stuff, Solar panels, Wind turbines,  Hydro power, Biomass, Solar power, wind power, water power,Rainwater, Resilience, Survival, Bushcraft, affordable homes, eco-Architecture,</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:43:30 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Wretha</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-234315</link>
		<dc:creator>Wretha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-234315</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Kubio&lt;/strong&gt;, yes, it is possible to remove the batteries and inverters and charge the grid with solar panels or wind generated power. No, not all of the power companies are required to pay you or credit you for what you put back into the system, it depends on what state you live in and the regulations in force. If they do pay you or credit you, they never pay or credit you the same amount that you pay them, they only pay you what THEY pay, wholesale price per kilowatt hour for the electricity. The other problem with this system is if the power grid goes down, then unless you have your own power storage, batteries, then you are still stuck in the dark with everyone else who relies on the grid for all of their power.

I&#039;m not saying that this system is bad, it is a step in the right direction, ieveryone who generates their own electricity on site, would pay less for power even if the power companies didn&#039;t credit you for your excess, you would be using your own generated electricity to power your home. By adding storage, you would become much more independent from the power companies, in the event of a power problem, the grid goes down, then you would still have power for your own home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Kubio</strong>, yes, it is possible to remove the batteries and inverters and charge the grid with solar panels or wind generated power. No, not all of the power companies are required to pay you or credit you for what you put back into the system, it depends on what state you live in and the regulations in force. If they do pay you or credit you, they never pay or credit you the same amount that you pay them, they only pay you what THEY pay, wholesale price per kilowatt hour for the electricity. The other problem with this system is if the power grid goes down, then unless you have your own power storage, batteries, then you are still stuck in the dark with everyone else who relies on the grid for all of their power.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that this system is bad, it is a step in the right direction, ieveryone who generates their own electricity on site, would pay less for power even if the power companies didn&#8217;t credit you for your excess, you would be using your own generated electricity to power your home. By adding storage, you would become much more independent from the power companies, in the event of a power problem, the grid goes down, then you would still have power for your own home.</p>
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		<title>By: Kubio</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-234134</link>
		<dc:creator>Kubio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-234134</guid>
		<description>hi all, would it be reasonable to remove the batteries &amp; inverters and just charge the grid instead? Would the power company give credit for solar power produced (at the same price/kw), which would then offset the cost of power used? Seems like this way one could spend the money on solar panels and let the power company worry about storage. KK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi all, would it be reasonable to remove the batteries &amp; inverters and just charge the grid instead? Would the power company give credit for solar power produced (at the same price/kw), which would then offset the cost of power used? Seems like this way one could spend the money on solar panels and let the power company worry about storage. KK</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: StephenLK</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-233359</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenLK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-233359</guid>
		<description>Just an introduction. Glad to be here, I&#039;m new. Saying hi to all you all. ;)

SLK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an introduction. Glad to be here, I&#8217;m new. Saying hi to all you all. ;)</p>
<p>SLK</p>
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		<title>By: warlock2</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-219172</link>
		<dc:creator>warlock2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-219172</guid>
		<description>Hello, 

I am very excited to learn all this information from all of you great people!  I have a project at hand and being a newbie in the whole solar power stuff i need some help from you guys that have been doing this for a while.  I am trying to build a solar system for only one reason... a fridge, we own a cattle ranch and the only thing we need to run is a fridge.  It is a 8 cubic feet fridge... my question is what would you guys recommend for me to build this system.  I know i need about two(2) 80w-100w panels... would the One Aims 800-watt modified sine wave inverter, 12 volts and the One Morningstar 6-amp charge controller, 12 volts work for that purpose?  as far as batteries i got a few marine deep cycle batteries so i dont need any.  What else would you guys suggest?  I am building my own panels from broken cell pieces.  Please send any suggestions to warlock2@live.com. Thanks guys!  GO GREEN!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, </p>
<p>I am very excited to learn all this information from all of you great people!  I have a project at hand and being a newbie in the whole solar power stuff i need some help from you guys that have been doing this for a while.  I am trying to build a solar system for only one reason&#8230; a fridge, we own a cattle ranch and the only thing we need to run is a fridge.  It is a 8 cubic feet fridge&#8230; my question is what would you guys recommend for me to build this system.  I know i need about two(2) 80w-100w panels&#8230; would the One Aims 800-watt modified sine wave inverter, 12 volts and the One Morningstar 6-amp charge controller, 12 volts work for that purpose?  as far as batteries i got a few marine deep cycle batteries so i dont need any.  What else would you guys suggest?  I am building my own panels from broken cell pieces.  Please send any suggestions to <a href="mailto:warlock2@live.com">warlock2@live.com</a>. Thanks guys!  GO GREEN!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Solar Generator</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-218997</link>
		<dc:creator>Solar Generator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-218997</guid>
		<description>[...] I found an interesting article on building a solar panel from blemished solar panels off eBay. I would love to build the panel and incorporate it into something like this commercial product. And it doesn&#8217;t sound like it would be too expensive. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I found an interesting article on building a solar panel from blemished solar panels off eBay. I would love to build the panel and incorporate it into something like this commercial product. And it doesn&#8217;t sound like it would be too expensive. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sunshocked : Stanifesto &#187; Going solar</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-215176</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunshocked : Stanifesto &#187; Going solar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-215176</guid>
		<description>[...] The original Treehugger set-up (which is based on a post from Off-Grid.net) promises to keep the initial set-up at under $600 and indeed it does: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The original Treehugger set-up (which is based on a post from Off-Grid.net) promises to keep the initial set-up at under $600 and indeed it does: [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ? Blog Archive   &#187; Podcast Numero Quatro&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-6081</link>
		<dc:creator>? Blog Archive   &#187; Podcast Numero Quatro&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-6081</guid>
		<description>[...] Pics. - ROKU M500 Soundbridge - iPod Nano Nano - iPod Nano Lockup Fix - Dell Latitude D510 - $600 Solar Starter Kit. - Treehugger Article - InFocus ScreenPlay 4805 - &#8220;The Untouchables&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pics. &#8211; ROKU M500 Soundbridge &#8211; iPod Nano Nano &#8211; iPod Nano Lockup Fix &#8211; Dell Latitude D510 &#8211; $600 Solar Starter Kit. &#8211; Treehugger Article &#8211; InFocus ScreenPlay 4805 &#8211; &#8220;The Untouchables&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RemyC</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-5991</link>
		<dc:creator>RemyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-5991</guid>
		<description>OK, who is going to package this $600 system into a crate so I can go sell it door to door with the Scion66?
www.scion66.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, who is going to package this $600 system into a crate so I can go sell it door to door with the Scion66?<br />
<a href="http://www.scion66.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.scion66.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Inexpensive DIY Solar Power - The $600 Kit - Brokekid.net</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-5986</link>
		<dc:creator>Inexpensive DIY Solar Power - The $600 Kit - Brokekid.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-5986</guid>
		<description>[...] ould pay and still end up with enough solar juice to run some things around the house? The Off-Grid weblog answers that question. 	For $600, you could get yourself enough solar power each week (ab [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ould pay and still end up with enough solar juice to run some things around the house? The Off-Grid weblog answers that question. 	For $600, you could get yourself enough solar power each week (ab [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JennyB</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-5977</link>
		<dc:creator>JennyB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-5977</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the specific information - it&#039;s so useful.  I&#039;m gathering ideas to get as near off-grid as possible in a more suburban setting. Fantastic to hear about people really doing it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the specific information &#8211; it&#8217;s so useful.  I&#8217;m gathering ideas to get as near off-grid as possible in a more suburban setting. Fantastic to hear about people really doing it!</p>
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		<title>By: miskokie</title>
		<link>http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/comment-page-1/#comment-5971</link>
		<dc:creator>miskokie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.off-grid.net/?p=487#comment-5971</guid>
		<description>I would like to take a slightly different approach to setting up a small yet robust system. Think of it as solar with an attitude. 

We left the unsustainable and hectic life of the Florida Palm Beaches with 26 years of the Three P&#039;s (planning, preparation, and practice) under our belts, and headed for the Appalachian foothills of Alabama to homestead 21 acres of wooded countryside. Our first challenge on the electrical energy front was supplying our needs for lighting, weather alert radio, and fans (you would have to live here in the humid southern summer to appreciate this). The three reasonable alternatives would be grid hookup, fossil fuel generator, or solar - our creeks not being of sufficient flow and hundred-foot plus high forest made both hydroelectric and wind power impractical. Raye and I took the environmental and financial cost of clearing the power company&#039;s required 60 foot right of way through our woods, or the more esthetically pleasing buried cable, as the target expense to beat if we were seriously going solar. Just as Mr. Ewing points out, none of this is really cheap upfront. Perhaps that is what separates many a homesteader from those who are not-it is not the shortsighted worldview, but the long term. 

For photovoltaic panels we chose the SP75 made (at the time) by Siemens. These robust mono crystal-line-type cells have been around since the invention of solar cells; and they have proven themselves tough, long-lived, and efficient. Shop around. Look for a bargain-and be patient! We were able to purchase four panels for under $300 each-a great price seven years ago. These were mounted to a homemade tower made from scrapped components: 16 feet of four-inch galvanized schedule 120 pipe; bearing and frame from an old tossed satellite dish, a commercial heavy-duty linear actuator, recycled square aluminum tubing, and an inexpensive tracking circuit built by Duane Johnson of Red Roc ( www.redroc.com ). For storage, unlike Mr. Ewing, we kept the costs way down by using five pairs of six-volt golf cart batteries ($46 apiece as opposed to $130). Some argue that these are &quot;beginner batteries.&quot; Well, over six years later these little guys are still kicking electrochemical butt-an expectancy well within the upper lifespan of the lower capacity expensive ones. 

At first we used a charge controller with all the bells and whistles. Because our initial cottage was placed under the nearly total shade of old-growth forest, the tracking tower and panels were located some 300 feet out into an acre clearing used for gardens, chickens, orchard/vineyard. Even with very large gauge wiring from panels to batteries some power loss was expected, but this was the tradeoff to placing the cottage out of the baking sun. We eventually found that the system worked much more efficiently without the controller and (as pointed out by the folks at HomePower.com) we just let the batteries bubble more often. Obviously, for us at least, this did not cause our batteries to be damaged. The small inconvenience of adding distilled water on a monthly to bimonthly basis depending upon the season was little to pay for the simplicity of the system. 

So what can you push with this simple little system? Well, we run two cottages and a 40-chicken chicken house. In the cottages there are several lights (one 8W, two 22W, two 32W 12VDC fluorescents, and four incandescents); two 108ft^sup 3^ displacement fans for the shower and the composting toilet respectively; two computers running on 12VDC; auto CD/stereo; DVD player, weather alert radio, nickel metal hydride battery charger for camera, walkie-talkies, flashlights, portable players, and everything else. For those appliances using 120VAC we have two modified-sine inverters. A400W for Raye&#039;s sewing machines and just about any other small appliance. There is also a 750W inverter for small tools, a grain mill, and the 52-inch Hunter ceiling fan. Our chicken coop is illuminated with a twin 15W tube fluorescent ceiling light for keeping enough light hours during winter in order to keep the hens producing eggs. There is also another of the 108ft^sup 3^ fans in the coop that keeps the odor out and cool air in. 

Mr. Ewing&#039;s system is quite inexpensive at $600 and could meet the needs of folks requiring a small or backup power load. Ours, including all the wiring, components, etc. had to come in under the $4,000 cost of getting the power company grid set up out in our place-a target we met at nearly half cost. Part of the savings was the result of doing all the work ourselves, part looking for bargains and salvageable components. The panels are guaranteed for 25 years, and (like Mr. Ewing pointed out) with a similar insignificant decline in output over that time to no less than around 80% quoted output. Think about this: after 25 years even at 80% there will be quite sufficient power to run all our stuff. The components were already paid for at purchase. And, paid for themselves several years back, too! Our primary future costs will be the battery replacement, which amortized over five to seven years comes out to only $5.50 to $7.70 per month. 

Like much of what we have been doing out here, the photovoltaic system for the cottages has been just another laboratory for our semi-underground home which is now nearing completion. We modeled the house system from that of the cottages, and have purchased 10 SP75 panels and a 2000W inverter for it. The cottages will continue to be powered by the smaller system when we are in the house. Guests in the first cottage, and renter(s) in the second, will continue to reap the environmental, financial, and reliable benefits of going solar. When our good neighbors lose power because of downed trees during storms, etc., we usually do not even know until a day or more later. Not only have we been without power interruption for nearly seven years, we still have hundreds of mature hardwood trees that would otherwise have been cleared. 

We hope that our learning experience with an alternative energy system will encourage others to consider jumping off the grid if their situation is similar. We would also like to hear from others working towards a sustainable lifestyle and living off the land. 

Our system costs 

SP75 Mono Crystalline Photovoltaic panels (4): $300 each. 

Stowaway 220Ahr 6 volt battery (newer ones rated 200Ahr: $46 each. 

Cobra model P12000 2000W (4000W surge) mod-sine inverter: $185. 

Vector model VECC043 750W (1500W surge) mod-sine inverter: $75. 

Vector model VEC031POB 400W (800W surge) mod-sine inverter: $35. 

LED based tracking circuit (Redroc. com): $35 

Scrounged components, wiring, miscellaneous components: $200 

Blumthal and Blumthal take a different approach to setting up a small yet robust system using solar with an altitude. Here, they detail how they left the unsustainable and hectic life of the Florida Plam Beaches with 26 years of the Three P&#039;s (planning, preparation, and practice) under their belts and headed for the Appalachian foothills of Alabam to homestead 21 acres of wooded countryside. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to take a slightly different approach to setting up a small yet robust system. Think of it as solar with an attitude. </p>
<p>We left the unsustainable and hectic life of the Florida Palm Beaches with 26 years of the Three P&#8217;s (planning, preparation, and practice) under our belts, and headed for the Appalachian foothills of Alabama to homestead 21 acres of wooded countryside. Our first challenge on the electrical energy front was supplying our needs for lighting, weather alert radio, and fans (you would have to live here in the humid southern summer to appreciate this). The three reasonable alternatives would be grid hookup, fossil fuel generator, or solar &#8211; our creeks not being of sufficient flow and hundred-foot plus high forest made both hydroelectric and wind power impractical. Raye and I took the environmental and financial cost of clearing the power company&#8217;s required 60 foot right of way through our woods, or the more esthetically pleasing buried cable, as the target expense to beat if we were seriously going solar. Just as Mr. Ewing points out, none of this is really cheap upfront. Perhaps that is what separates many a homesteader from those who are not-it is not the shortsighted worldview, but the long term. </p>
<p>For photovoltaic panels we chose the SP75 made (at the time) by Siemens. These robust mono crystal-line-type cells have been around since the invention of solar cells; and they have proven themselves tough, long-lived, and efficient. Shop around. Look for a bargain-and be patient! We were able to purchase four panels for under $300 each-a great price seven years ago. These were mounted to a homemade tower made from scrapped components: 16 feet of four-inch galvanized schedule 120 pipe; bearing and frame from an old tossed satellite dish, a commercial heavy-duty linear actuator, recycled square aluminum tubing, and an inexpensive tracking circuit built by Duane Johnson of Red Roc ( <a href="http://www.redroc.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.redroc.com</a> ). For storage, unlike Mr. Ewing, we kept the costs way down by using five pairs of six-volt golf cart batteries ($46 apiece as opposed to $130). Some argue that these are &#8220;beginner batteries.&#8221; Well, over six years later these little guys are still kicking electrochemical butt-an expectancy well within the upper lifespan of the lower capacity expensive ones. </p>
<p>At first we used a charge controller with all the bells and whistles. Because our initial cottage was placed under the nearly total shade of old-growth forest, the tracking tower and panels were located some 300 feet out into an acre clearing used for gardens, chickens, orchard/vineyard. Even with very large gauge wiring from panels to batteries some power loss was expected, but this was the tradeoff to placing the cottage out of the baking sun. We eventually found that the system worked much more efficiently without the controller and (as pointed out by the folks at HomePower.com) we just let the batteries bubble more often. Obviously, for us at least, this did not cause our batteries to be damaged. The small inconvenience of adding distilled water on a monthly to bimonthly basis depending upon the season was little to pay for the simplicity of the system. </p>
<p>So what can you push with this simple little system? Well, we run two cottages and a 40-chicken chicken house. In the cottages there are several lights (one 8W, two 22W, two 32W 12VDC fluorescents, and four incandescents); two 108ft^sup 3^ displacement fans for the shower and the composting toilet respectively; two computers running on 12VDC; auto CD/stereo; DVD player, weather alert radio, nickel metal hydride battery charger for camera, walkie-talkies, flashlights, portable players, and everything else. For those appliances using 120VAC we have two modified-sine inverters. A400W for Raye&#8217;s sewing machines and just about any other small appliance. There is also a 750W inverter for small tools, a grain mill, and the 52-inch Hunter ceiling fan. Our chicken coop is illuminated with a twin 15W tube fluorescent ceiling light for keeping enough light hours during winter in order to keep the hens producing eggs. There is also another of the 108ft^sup 3^ fans in the coop that keeps the odor out and cool air in. </p>
<p>Mr. Ewing&#8217;s system is quite inexpensive at $600 and could meet the needs of folks requiring a small or backup power load. Ours, including all the wiring, components, etc. had to come in under the $4,000 cost of getting the power company grid set up out in our place-a target we met at nearly half cost. Part of the savings was the result of doing all the work ourselves, part looking for bargains and salvageable components. The panels are guaranteed for 25 years, and (like Mr. Ewing pointed out) with a similar insignificant decline in output over that time to no less than around 80% quoted output. Think about this: after 25 years even at 80% there will be quite sufficient power to run all our stuff. The components were already paid for at purchase. And, paid for themselves several years back, too! Our primary future costs will be the battery replacement, which amortized over five to seven years comes out to only $5.50 to $7.70 per month. </p>
<p>Like much of what we have been doing out here, the photovoltaic system for the cottages has been just another laboratory for our semi-underground home which is now nearing completion. We modeled the house system from that of the cottages, and have purchased 10 SP75 panels and a 2000W inverter for it. The cottages will continue to be powered by the smaller system when we are in the house. Guests in the first cottage, and renter(s) in the second, will continue to reap the environmental, financial, and reliable benefits of going solar. When our good neighbors lose power because of downed trees during storms, etc., we usually do not even know until a day or more later. Not only have we been without power interruption for nearly seven years, we still have hundreds of mature hardwood trees that would otherwise have been cleared. </p>
<p>We hope that our learning experience with an alternative energy system will encourage others to consider jumping off the grid if their situation is similar. We would also like to hear from others working towards a sustainable lifestyle and living off the land. </p>
<p>Our system costs </p>
<p>SP75 Mono Crystalline Photovoltaic panels (4): $300 each. </p>
<p>Stowaway 220Ahr 6 volt battery (newer ones rated 200Ahr: $46 each. </p>
<p>Cobra model P12000 2000W (4000W surge) mod-sine inverter: $185. </p>
<p>Vector model VECC043 750W (1500W surge) mod-sine inverter: $75. </p>
<p>Vector model VEC031POB 400W (800W surge) mod-sine inverter: $35. </p>
<p>LED based tracking circuit (Redroc. com): $35 </p>
<p>Scrounged components, wiring, miscellaneous components: $200 </p>
<p>Blumthal and Blumthal take a different approach to setting up a small yet robust system using solar with an altitude. Here, they detail how they left the unsustainable and hectic life of the Florida Plam Beaches with 26 years of the Three P&#8217;s (planning, preparation, and practice) under their belts and headed for the Appalachian foothills of Alabam to homestead 21 acres of wooded countryside.</p>
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